SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Carry On Friends, the Caribbean American podcast. I'm excited about my guests. As always, I'm excited about all my guests because they all bring a different, a unique perspective and vibe to the podcast. And I'm happy to welcome Anthony to the podcast. Anthony, welcome. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:21

Hey, hey, I'm doing excellent, Carrie, and thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

All right. I am excited to get into this conversation. But before we do, why don't you tell the community of friends a little bit about who you are, Caribbean country you represent, and a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Yeah, well, I heal from the Caribbean nation of Trinidad and Tobago, home of Calypso, Steel Pan, so music. And I am currently leading the employer experience and critical programs for Amazon Music. And I'm also a musician. I sing Reggae Soka and dance on music. And I just launched an EP recently called Good Vibes Only. And I'll be going on tour to spread some good vibes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Boy, I tell you, if you are not Caribbean in a package, right? So you work a full-time job, you are a musician, you're going on tour, you have multiple jobs, but parleying your different talents and you know what we do. So before we get to your job at Amazon, um tell me how this EP come about. Like, what's the story about your music career? And give us a little bit more of that backstory.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Yeah, sure. Well, I've been uh introduced to music since I was a kid. Um, really. Since the age of 10, I entered an ex tempo competition. Um, so that was really my first foray into you know performing and stuff like that. Um, but fast forward to the present, um, I had this really cool opportunity to enter a talent show competition. And uh I kind of went viral with my performance. And uh the public relations team at Amazon asked me to do a music video to um celebrate the Bar Razor program uh at the company because of the performance. I did a kind of like kind of integrated some of the company culture into some of the lyrics and stuff, and people loved it. So um I became very popular, and the head of uh HR asked me to do a song for our back to the office initiative um around COVID and health and safety um stuff. And when that opportunity presented itself, I said, you know what, this is really cool. Um, I want to make this really professional. And I reached out to one of the top producers from Trinidad called Casey Phillips of Precision Productions um to see if you would partner with me on it to bring the project to life. And we worked together, we delivered on it, everybody loved it. And from there, um, you know, Casey and I decided to partner in doing this EP called Good Vibes Only. And um, it has a mix of reggae, dancehole, soca. Um, you know, I was able to go home to Trinidad, and some of the trucks were playing the music and stuff this year past carnival, so it really turned out well, and I'm continuing to, you know, just um share the music, and that's how it came about.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Wonderful. So um to get in your business a little bit, you're taking time off from work to go on tour.

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Actually, um, I'm doing a little bit of both. I'm I'm trying to kind of like work remotely and also like take you know for the day after when I have to travel or take the day off to travel, and I'm trying to make it work for the tour. So, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

That makes sense, that makes sense because we're you know, remote work or whatever city you go up in that Amazon office and work, and then you go do your show later, and then you know, you log on later. So we have to we're making the remote work situation.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Multitasking, multitasking.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yes, and now you said that what did you what are you doing with Amazon music? Tell me about that again.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Yeah, yeah. So I I'm on the um people experience and technology team, um, doing a program management function for critical people programs and employee experience. So I basically um trying to analyze any of the defects that employees experience within the business and drive um programs to address those pain points.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

All right, that's all fancy and stuff, but basically, you are keeping a list of all of the problems and telling how to fix it.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Yeah, basically, what is the problem? This is the recommended solution. Let's try and get that approved and move forward with it. That's in the in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Wonderful. All right, so now you are you're at Amazon and you are the president of their Black Employee Network.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yes, yes. So I've uh served in a leadership capacity with our Black Employee Network for the last five years, going on six. Um, I recently have transitioned my presidential um role and I'm an advisor to our Black Employ Employee Network. But for the last six years, I was in a leadership capacity. I was president of our Black Employee Network, HQ Chapter here in Seattle. And um I really enjoyed that because it allowed me to really focus on um diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives and really have a seat at the table and influencing the way in which Amazon goes about um, you know, addressing the opportunities that we uncovered for ourselves as black employees. So it's very empowering, you know, with being in that position and uh had an amazing board of directors that focus on professional development, recruiting uh a pipeline of black talent into the company. We of course would drive um community involvement initiatives and work with strategic partners around STEM, especially around um younger folks coming in uh into the company and getting the skills necessary to do so. Um, networking as well. We work very closely with uh local black-owned businesses and try to integrate them into the different programs that Amazon has to offer to that that can help them with their business. So, yeah, it's been a great role. I had a lot of um fun times with it and also a lot of uh, I guess, uh meaningful opportunities to kind of address um, I guess, gaps in opportunity. I would just mention one, for example. Um, I was one of the program managers that helped to launch Amazon's Black Business Accelerator, which is a $150 million commitment that Amazon made to support black-owned businesses. And, you know, it that was really fulfilling being able to be at a company like Amazon and actually, you know, advocate for programs like that that impact the community.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

I love that you work at Amazon and have this big unicorn company experience because um it gives us some kind of context, right? Um, but it's also an outlier. Most people don't work at companies that have the resources that Amazon has to develop a ERG or employee resource group like is the acronym is BEN.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Yes, yeah, Ben, Black Employee Network.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Right. So uh a network like that. So um based on the years you've spent in that role, have you come across people who've worked at other companies who didn't have the resource to do an ERG or maybe they did have the resource, but they haven't formed one and some of the challenges that they're experiencing there, especially for people who are, you know, like how do they, you know, thrive, develop professionally, make connections. So let me know if you had any of those experiences and your insight for anyone who's at such a company where there is no resources for one or the company don't have one, et cetera.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yes, good question. Um quite consistently over the years, I've um, you know, spoken to individuals at smaller companies or the ones that didn't have an ERG. A lot of times they were seeking advice to your question. And um, what I did do in those moments was kind of act in a mentorship capacity around um, you know, you needing to take ownership of the creating that resource through the engagement with leadership. Um, so I would often give them like a blueprint of how one would go about establishing an ERG, um, which essentially would want it to evolve to a BRG business resource group in the future once it's developed. But you know, the first thing is really to develop a plan on what are the needs and what gaps that you have uncovered as an employee and really get a sponsor, an executive sponsor of the company. Um, and you know, if nobody's doing it, you know, you gotta do it yourself a lot of times in these situations. And um, and I think that's taking the time to have a strategic plan, create um your proposal, um, and get that executive sponsorship, um, that would be one way to navigate it. I think a lot of times, though, folks may find themselves being in a company where there isn't much diversity, and that in and of itself is a challenge. And there really isn't much you can do, but there's still an opportunity to kind of advocate for the DEI opportunities and advocate for the resources around the underrepresented groups there, even if there isn't a significant um population uh at the company. So there's there's still a way in which you could go about kind of creating programming for the folks that are there, even if it's not a large one.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Wonderful. So, what is the difference between uh ERG, employee resource group, and a BRG? And what do you mean that you think the ERG should eventually become a BRG?

SPEAKER_03 9:28

That's interesting. Sure. So I would start with saying there's an affinity group, which would be more so folks are networking and coming together as a community without much strategic um programming outside of the networking and us just having a safe space for each other. The ERG would be actually folks developing the programming where they have different focus areas, such as the professional development, the networking, the community involvement, the culture committee, the business um development piece where you're partnering with the business to drive programming for your community. And then the BRG would be the evolution from the affinity group to the ERG to then the business resource group, where the business itself is actually a stakeholder and is driving impact along with the ERG as stakeholders in um, you know, as consultants to the strategic programming around the EI for the company. Um and that's where you would see, you know, for example, um, ERGs have been paid, the leaders that are part of the ERG, in a business resource group, they will also be paid or compensated for their time and um and dedication and work. Whereas affinity groups and ERGs, they're typically volunteers.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

In a previous interview that you did on Bridge to You with Monique, one example you gave was, or maybe two examples you gave, where one member, maybe board member of um Ben, they created um a gateway or I can't remember what it was, was her beauty products. It was something like that.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Yeah, uh, we call it entrepreneurship, by the way. So when an employee you know uncovers an opportunity for a business idea uh at the company and its launch, you know, that's through an entrepreneurship, you we call it. And um, one of those, for example, I would give is one of our former presidents of Penn, um, Ravina Vallashir, and uh one of the former board members, Kim Hill, um they came up with an idea to launch a black hair care storefront on Amazon. And the customer problem was when they searched, they couldn't find products that, you know, for their demographic as black women. And um that was a pain point. And, you know, at Amazon, we're very customer obsessed, and we also have a very specific way in which we um try to navigate and address business problems. So they wrote a PRFEQ, which is a press release frequently asked questions document, in which they presented uh this idea to launch the storefront to our um past CEO of consumer Jeff Wilkie. And he loved it and he funded the idea, and they were able to get resources, engineers, product managers to launch a storefront. And it's called Textures and Hues, and it's actually still on Amazon.com. If you go to Amazon.com forward slash textures and hues, you'll be able to see that storefront and shop from it. Um and that's how they went about it, really kind of uh a very Amazonian way, leaning into our leadership principles of customer obsession, invent and simplify, and documenting there the solution to being able to solve that.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Wonderful. As you're explaining that, it reminds me, I love, I watch a lot of documentaries and it feels it reminds me of um Pixar when they do their shorts and how they have people in Pixar, they they they create movies, and then there's a whole team that's dedicated to the two people who are selected. So it's it's very fascinating to see how large companies they dedicate the same resources for projects that develop internally as a passion of their employees. So one of the reasons why I knew I wanted you on the podcast is that, you know, I try to balance the conversations around entrepreneurship and being a business professional, you have a career, or maybe you're in between, you have a side hustle and you work a full-time job. And, you know, I want to speak to our audience that's a mixture and just balance that conversation because I think there is value in all three, but we need to speak more to those who have just double down and being, you know, in corporate and doing both, and how to also lean in and be part of the work culture, right? You've done such a great job with that song for Amazon and their culture. And so I wanted to talk about the benefits of if you're working a full-time job, what it means to just lean in and be part of work, because not everyone has a perfect work experience. I know I don't, you know, and even in the best of work scenarios, I know you have bad days at Amazon too. But how do you lean in and make that experience your own? Like I work here and it's not perfect, but I come here for eight hours a day. I'm gonna make the best of it because I want to succeed. I want to do well. So talk to me a little bit about how you've been able to lean into your different passions and bring those elements to work with you and let it be part of your personal employee brand that helps you to succeed and thrive at Amazon and outside of Amazon with your EP good vibe self.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Yes, yes, great question. And it's a very thought-provoking question as I reflect on it. So thank you for bringing it up. I think it starts with having a mental model of leaning into what makes you peculiar as an individual and not being afraid to share that within the work environment. And a lot of times, you know, I can speak myself as a black Caribbean male in the corporate space. There is a level of uh imposter syndrome that does come about because at a large tech company like Amazon, there's still an opportunity, you know, to see more folks like myself. You know, I've in living in Seattle. I'm one of the few uh Caribbean folks even in the tech space still. So, with that said, you know, I've been very proactive in embracing who I am fully in the work experience and not shying away from you know the fact that I'm Caribbean, the fact that I'm a musician, and identifying what are the opportunities at work in which I could integrate my passions. And I think that was the formula that allowed me to one, first be comfortable with being able to share a little bit more about myself, but then also being proactive and well, there's um this opportunity for me to write a song for the company. Has anybody ever done that before? You know, should I do it, would I be looked at strangely for doing it, and not really care and just lean into that because I enjoy it, right? I think it's important for us to address um issues surrounding um race and diversity, equity and inclusion. I aligned myself in a leadership capacity with our Black Employee Network and you know, leaned into that, and that brought a lot of joy and fulfillment. So I think um you have to be comfortable with bringing the elements of yourself that you may feel to maybe inappropriate or you maybe feel that people may um you know look at you differently. Um, and I think that in and of itself, that process, being comfortable with it, will bring a lot of fulfillment in the workplace.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

All right. So you make that sound so easy.

unknown 16:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

So easy, right? Sure. You said it, you know, um, and you didn't give this context, but you were in New York before you went to Seattle. So if you if you're in New York, you kind of feel comfortable ish, you know, showing up as Caribbean in the workplace because this is New York, right? But you have people who are other parts of the country where the Caribbean population dwindles as you move further from the eastern seaboard.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

I'm experiencing it right now living in Seattle, so I get it.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Right. So what do you say to the person listening of Caribbean heritage, maybe born in the region or they're, you know, first generation born here? How they can be authentically themselves at work and what it means to show up as Caribbean in the workplace. And aside from the flag, you know, you know, but like what does that mean? Or what did what did that look like for you, a black man with an accent who can sing showing up at work? What does that look like? And what are like some baby steps? Because I mean, part of being a singer, you perform, and you know, maybe that took a little courage, but for other people, maybe they don't have a talent like singing to break the ice. How else can people bring that into the workplace?

SPEAKER_03 18:20

I think you have to find outlets that accommodate the that process. Um, and a lot of that may come about by um the communities that you can be a part of to start breaking the ice around your identity. For example, a lot of organizations will have something called Toastmasters where you get to speak. And you know, I am a member of Toastmasters, um, and I think what I do a lot of times is I lean into the fact that I'm Caribbean. I always tell people, you know, I'm from Trinidad and Tobago. And any of the icebreakers, I would lead meetings with clients and say, you know, the accent you hear is from Caribbean nation of Trinidad and Tobago. So I'm very um vocal about my identity and and where I'm from. I think for folks that, you know, don't have a lot of Caribbean people at work, but want to be more comfortable or have the opportunities, it's it's creating those moments and being intentional about um, you know, ways in which you can share a little bit about yourself and your culture and your heritage in those conversations. Um, especially I think when you're doing meetings and stuff. Um, you know, you're doing a presentation. Hey guys, my name is Anthony Cole. I'm a senior program manager for Amazon Music. You actually hear something that added to because I actually just came from Carnival. Like you just bring that up. And guess what? Nine times out of ten, people are going to be really intrigued and interested and remember you because that's unique and different, and they haven't experienced someone like you before. So sharing a little bit about yourselves when you have those opportunities, I think is ways in which you can kind of do it smartly and um you know, not in a real or very abrasive way.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

I love that. I remember one time, even here in New York, someone says, Where are you from? Um I said, Oh, I'm from Jamaica, Jamaica the island, not Jamaica Queens, you know, because it's a follow-up that I've gotten before, like Jamaica, Jamaica or Jamaica Queen. So I had to, but I've used that in an opening and it has helped, you know, there are times that I don't have an accent at work. And, you know, when a family member calls and I start whispering and a little bit of the accent come out, somebody always perks up. I'm like, did I hear an accent? You know, so it's the opportunity to educate. So there's a long-standing discussion about people bringing their full selves at work, and or when it comes to diversity, equity, and inclusion, there are some people who feel like it's not my job to teach you. Google is your friend. What is your position on that? And how does that help or hurt or um or cause to have more diversity and inclusion at work? So um I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

Yeah, good question. Uh I would address this by thinking about the experience I had during the George Floyd movement. As I shared, I I was a leader of our Black Employee Network and in the capacity of being a black employee network leader at a time like that in which we were going through so much turmoil and um and need for folks to kind of lean into um activations around it, I found myself being overwhelmed at work with doing my day job and also being one of the leaders out of the face of the black people at the company. And it was very stressful. And every few minutes folks would be reaching out for me to speak to their business about you know things that we could be doing to address what's going on and and um you know it was kind of overwhelming. And I remember being annoyed when someone wanted me to talk about my experience as a black male that has several times experienced racial profiling by the police growing up in Brooklyn, New York. Several times I experienced that growing up. I have so many examples, I even wrote a song about it. But um I remember being frustrated and not wanting to, to your point, be the person to educate these white folk or folks that are not from the black race on the experiences as a black person. And in my emotional state, I was leaning towards not having those talks, having those conversations around my experience. And then I paused and I said, You know what, Anthony? This is an opportunity for you to educate, and not doing it is more harmful than doing it because this is a was one of the first times there's so much attention on this issue. You have an opportunity to share your experience and bring people along the idea of how easily um folks are discriminated against because of the color of their skin. Uh around the experience of microaggressions that they never think about that, they actually do. This is your opportunity to be able to do that. And you are a leader, so you shouldn't shy away from it, from this opportunity. So, um, as I was wrestling in my mind at that time around the burden of doing it, I came to the conclusion that it was more impactful, uh, it would be much more productive to actually share. And yeah, I started to speak about those experiences, and it was quite impactful. I received anecdotes from people because a lot of these calls, you know, it was Zoom about Chime. We used Chime at back at Amazon, and you know, it would be sometimes these chime calls have 200 people, 500 people. So I would get a lot of messages after or emails thanking me for talking about it. And wow, I never knew that you guys experience things like that. Um, I'm also right now on part of a reverse mentorship program where a senior leader is paired up with an underrepresented employee for them to give insight into their experiences at the workplace. And that has been extremely impactful, more so to the leader, to learn about wow, I need to be thinking about the experiences of my minority employees and what are the best practices and things that I could implement to address some of these pain points that they experience in their experience as employees. So um, yeah, I would say uh it's better to just gain that confidence and um, you know, share your insight as a from your experience as a black person, especially if you have had horrible experiences, as folks are just not aware of it. They're clueless a lot of times. And if we don't do it, who will?

SPEAKER_00 25:06

You're right. And in some instances, you know, there's an added layer of being uh an immigrant, the assumptions that are made about your immigration status and all of that stuff when you're you're in the the workplace. And um, you know, in my case, I've had someone say that they didn't want to go to Jamaica and if I smoke weed, and I was like, What does every Jamaican smoke weed? Just like I don't I don't get it. Like, you know, and I was very pregnant at the time when they asked. I'm just looking at them like, are you crazy?

SPEAKER_01 25:43

Just see, you need you see if it you needed to dispel that, you know, you know, dispel that ignorance.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah, or if you know about it, that means you you smell I'm like, so I know where they sell alcohol means that I'm an out, you know, so it's it's it's a balance. And and to your point, it's it depends on where you are emotionally at the time that the requests or the they they come because if it's a heavy day, your initial reaction is just to react and say, you know, this is not my problem, this is your problem. And you know, or opportunity to educate um from using our firsthand experiences are almost always more impactful than reading it about someone else who they don't have a connection to. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, sometimes you don't feel like it, you know, and that's a natural and normal reaction depending on the circumstance. So as we wrap up a little bit, um what are you looking forward to in this next chapter? You are advisor, you're off on your world tour. Okay, maybe it's a local tour. What I'm I'm manifesting a world tour for you. I'm manifesting the world tour for you. And um what advice do you give to other people who are balancing this brand internally? And then they have all of this other activity outside of work. How do you help them balance that? Um, I don't know if you have like you're a singer on your LinkedIn, but that's a question that I struggle with sometimes. Like, I either put my job on there or don't put the podcast on there, or have my podcast don't put the job. So, how do you manage these distinct identities, especially across social media?

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Yeah, good question. Um I often struggled with it. So early in my career was in banking, private banker, and that's a much more suit and tie, button-up corporate, uh, much more militant environment, like even emails, there's sensitivity behind how you can write emails and stuff from that culture. And like I said, it's since I was 10 years old, I've always into my music all the way to present. And uh I used to really struggle with the identity of being someone that's in the arts outside of work. And um I started to more and more expose folks to that. So, for example, when I got married, I had a uh music video that from the wedding in which I wrote a song for my wife and I performed it at the wedding. So I would share that video a lot of times with clients and getting to know them. So that was with uh an easy, nice, organic way to kind of get them to know a little bit more about me and stuff. Um, and then fast forward to the present. Um I think I still, if I'm transparent, wrestle with the idea of being too far on the spectrum of artists and or too far on the spectrum of corporate professionals. And I think on my LinkedIn I've had smart ways of introducing folks to my talent. For example, the song I did for the company, it's on my page, but that's connected to the company. My Alma Mata, City College of New York, they reached out to do an article celebrating me as an alum and um inviting me to speak to um the students. And they and for the article, they also kind of spoke about my music and uh a song I did call Rise Up because it was very inspirational. And I posted that on my LinkedIn. So I find ways to introduce folks to that side of me without it being too heavily represented on LinkedIn because I still feel it's a professional platform, even though the dynamic of it has changed a lot and it's much more social media, you know, you know, the type of content we are seeing on there. So if I'm on it, I still wrestle with how much of that do I want to market or present on LinkedIn, but I'm comfortable enough to let people know hey, I'm a musician and I'm performing because I talk about it on podcasts like these, and I post them and people hear about it. So so there's that. Um, and I think the advice to people uh that have duality, that have so much, you know, uh multi-layers to themselves, I think you know, you will suffocate if you don't lean into those things that bring you joy that you are passionate about. And I think the most fulfillment comes when you know you are bringing along those elements of yourself and sharing them even in the workplace or finding ways to do it to the level in which you're comfortable. Like I've performed at Amazon, right? I've performed at All Hands and stuff like that. And people might think I'm crazy, like what you do it, performing with your Caribbean accent at work. But I love it, and it seems like people love it because I keep getting asked to do it. So, you know, I I uh I and you know, whatever it is, if you're an artist or somebody who likes to paint, you know, maybe suggest to your team, hey, why don't we have a paint and sip night to bring yourself along and immerse your workplace environment, find try and just think of creative ways to do that. Um, I mean there's chat GPT now, maybe prompt chat chat GPT around some ideas and how you could go about doing that. I'm being funny there, but um, but I do think it's important and uh there has to be a balance to it that you're comfortable about because I I might I myself am struggling with it in certain ways.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Thank you for sharing that. Um I I do struggle with the LinkedIn. I am not very good on the social media. Like the social media is good for the podcast, but LinkedIn, I've struggled with it a lot. And my full-time job isn't listed on LinkedIn. Not because I'm keeping it a secret, but yeah, maybe part of it is because I just don't know how to balance this world of podcasting and stuff with what my job is. And um because I can't find that alignment, I'll leave what my podcasting stuff is and then deal with business later. Because, you know, a lot of times clients, when I go on my LinkedIn and you see, you see who's looked at your profile, all the clients that I work with, they start searching me. Is this the same Carrie Ann that I was talking to? I don't see this job here. So I do struggle with that. Um, but I I think people in the office, they do know, you know, um, they're like, Do you know she does podcasts? And they're just like, Yeah, I do know. When do you find the time? I'm like, you know, but it's it's okay to struggle with it. I think that's the point we're trying to make. It's okay to struggle with it, but um, in terms of how to make it feel cohesive on a platform like LinkedIn. But, you know, the balance to that is people internally, through casual conversations, they know that I have a podcast and they'll say, Can I listen to it? I said, Well, if you don't mind Caribbean accents, you know, you surely could listen to it. But I think for me, it's important as we go through this time where people are going back to work, they're not doing entrepreneurship as much. You know, I think it's important to do a better job of how we equipped people to navigate and bring the duality of ourselves into the workplace and lean in and enjoy work or take up that space as we rightfully should. So thank you, Anthony, for being on the podcast and for sharing such wonderful insights, reverse mentorship. I'm like, this is the perk of working at big companies. Like, say what? So why don't you tell the community of friends where they can find you?

SPEAKER_03 33:35

Yeah, so uh you can find me on social media at Anthony Cole Music. So Anthony Cole Music, Cole spell C O L E on LinkedIn. No, LinkedIn is Anthony Cole, but on um IG, Anthony Cole Music, Twitter, a Cole Music, Facebook Anthony Cole Music, YouTube, Anthony Cole Music, then search for that you should be able to find me. And I would definitely love for you to check on my EP, good vibes only.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Uh I was just about to say, you know, I wouldn't be channeling my you know, New York dish jockey vibe. I say, you know, why don't you drop a little one, two, three little bar here on the episode? You know, I mean, let's pretend you're on WB the list or whatever, and they say, you know, you know, you sing a one song for take us out to close the segment. I'm I'm definitely gonna check it out, but you're welcome to. I'm I'm joking, but you're welcome to sing a song, and people are you know, a part of the song, and you know, whatever. But I feel I find it fascinating to be honest, that you're doing this.

SPEAKER_03 34:39

Yeah, no, I mean I'll I'll share some lyrics, um, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:43

Um, living in a well I can't pick and gun. Sometimes I want to check out and done, sometimes you want to give up and run. Gotta keep holding on. Rise up again. Never let them get you down, never let them rise up again. Believe in your dreams. Yeah, rise up, rise up, rise up.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

I love that. Thank you so much. Boom bong. Carry on, friends. You've earned it first, you know. Thank you, Anthony. This was so much fun. I enjoyed having you on the podcast. I definitely am going to check out this EP and share it with um my fellow podcaster who does style and vibes, and you might hear from she too to talk about your album. So, and as I love to say at the end of every episode, walk good.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

Awesome. Thank you so much, Carrie, and appreciate it.