Speaker 1: 0:01

Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Carry On Friends, the Caribbean American Experience, and I'm excited because the pre-recording conversation was already exciting and fun, and so I'm excited to welcome JO to the podcast. Jo, how are you Welcome? Welcome.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Hey, carrie-anne, thank you for that awesome introduction. You know, just happy to be here talking with you.

Speaker 1: 0:25

I'm excited. So why don't you tell the community of friends a little bit about who you are Caribbean country or countries you represent and a little bit about the work you do?

Speaker 2: 0:47

generation born in Miami, florida. You guys know how that goes Big old family. I'm the last one, but when they got me they're like, okay, we're staying. So we all grew up in Miami, new York and that kind of existence. But overall I'm a filmmaker, I'm a songwriter, content creator. I do all of those things.

Speaker 2: 1:04

If you've ever seen In Living Color and you know the hey man sketch, I am that person. I've kind of lived up to that most of my life and other things I do an entertainment industry professional. Over 10 years experience, everything from music videos, directing, writing above and below the line. I just keep going. You learn one thing and you're like, all right, I see what you guys got going on over here, but I want more and I just use my ambition and just keep moving up the ladder. Currently I support the business affairs attorneys for a major streaming company and basically we negotiate with the writers and content partners for the platform. So that's like my day hustle and, like I said, a lot of jobs. You know, I just keep going. It's ambition. This can be the interview if you keep letting me go.

Speaker 1: 2:00

Listen, just in that opening, right, you know like you may have a full-time job. You know the day hustle and we do this. And then you asked me if I was a filmmaker. You know, before we started recording, I'm like nah, but you know, I feel like I could direct some stuff. Just give me resource, I'm a, take a stab at it. You know, it's the energy, it's the culture. You're full of ambition and you just want to try a thing if you are interested in it. So I already love that energy. So we know that you know, man of many talents, you see something, you're full of ambition. What made you first decide that you wanted to get into entertainment? You wanted to direct, you wanted to do all this. What was that first little spark for you?

Speaker 2: 2:49

okay, music was my entry point music and poetry. My mother raised all this by herself when she got here. But the memories I do have of my father he did the play a part right Jamaica man love his music. So we always had like bob playing like core memories early on. Is bob marley could this be love? Dancing with my dad, dancing with my mom, my brothers and sisters. Um, that lit the spark for music. And then, uh, I'm a little older. So michael jackson mohawk listen, there's not one jamaican I come across that don't talk about michael jackson.

Speaker 1: 3:25

Moonwalk, listen, there's not one jamaican. I come across that don't talk about michael jackson, because I have a similar memory, like you said, a little older. So 1988, after hurricane gilbert damages jamaica right, my brother, my all, the fence and everything blow down. We get up and we're performing the bad album to everybody.

Speaker 2: 3:50

Yes, yes, oh, the family performances that brings like you perform for whoever come over. That's just the way we grew up. It's so funny that you mentioned that part, but music definitely lit the spark. I'm always singing, even in school, getting in trouble for like hold on Tita. I know the answer to that, but let me do this little performance in the middle. You know just that kind of energy since I was a kid, just how I've always been all right.

Speaker 1: 4:18

So the entry point was music. I feel like I already feel the connection because, as I said to you, my husband's like how much TV you love watch, which song, don't you know? Right, because you know, as I was saying earlier, as a girl, you know, I can't roam and go about business like he would. As a boy growing up in Jamaica, and when I moved here, that was the first time ever I experienced what it meant to be a latchkey kid, because in Jamaica your family live in the district or the community. Auntie live across the road, right, they're neighbors, so you're never really alone. And I grew up in what they call a multi-generational home, because it's not just your mommy and you, it's mommy, grandma, uncle, everybody live in the one o's right. So I was never home alone.

Speaker 1: 5:11

So when I came here, it was experiencing being a latchkey kid. So you either watch tv are we a tad of watch tv, where you know you play music? Are we playing music again? So I already feel like, yes, you're speaking my language. So music was the entry point. And then what was that first scenario where you're like, oh, I could do a little bit more. What is that?

Speaker 2: 5:41

School. So in school, high school, just looking for a class, for a right, looking for something, so you don't have to work so hard, like, all right, I'm smart, I can pass tests and all of that, but I don't want to work so hard. You know, teenage boy, I want to do teenage boy things. But uh, I take uh drama as an elective, just random. And in the class, you know, I have a teacher, miss Santiago. I still remember her name and I won't lie to you. Very humble beginnings, like it's not a rosy, I'm smiling and I'm glossing over all the hardship, right, which I know everyone is familiar with. But get to high school. I'm like working a full-time job after school, overnight, clean up, come to school in class, so looking for easy grades, so to speak.

Speaker 2: 6:36

I take drama, Miss Santiago, she sees something I do, a scene from the hurricane with Denzel. I don't know if you remember the scene where he's kind of like battling demons. He's in solitary confinement battling demons and she gives me a project and I do the project and it touches something in her. The class is like they see me differently for the first time. The class is like they see me differently for the first time and I just put a little asterisk by that moment because I'm like, okay, this is something I could do once I get the other parts of my life kind of clear it up. We're gonna circle back to this because I think there's a talent here and that's literally what I did.

Speaker 2: 7:19

Yeah, long journey, but that I definitely remember being in drama class in high school and saying, oh, I can do this and I get a reaction from this that it's good for both parties. You know what I mean. Some people get in for the wrong reasons. They want other things. But I felt good giving the performance and the people who received it felt touched by it, so it sparked something. The performance and the people who received it felt touched by it, so it sparked something.

Speaker 1: 7:45

So from that moment to where you are now like I'm sure there's a lot of ups and downs, meanderings Did you always work a full-time job and then decided that you know, I'm gonna do music on the side? At what point did you actually start to actively work on this thing while doing a full-time job, and where did you find time in the edges of your day to kind of do this?

Speaker 2: 8:15

I'm a firm believer in the 24-hour day, so there's 24 hours in a day. You can't get more, you can't get less. So you really have to map it out. Most of my life I go with the flow, you know. Sometimes I can be on Caribbean people time that's what my friends call it. But for the most part you know, I know where I need to be, what I need to be doing.

Speaker 2: 8:39

I have a good blueprint, so to speak, after college. So you know the ambitious side right. You have to make sure the money's right. So you have to do the schooling. You don't have to. But I'm not a person who believes you have to put all the eggs in one basket. I think you can spread it and if you take your time and you're intentional, you can get to where you need to go. So with my humble beginnings I wasn't going to go more humble beginnings. I'm trying to get out of that. So you know, went to college, got a business degree. The one thing I should say another thing people might know me from is Extreme Makeover. So I was born with a cleft palate and I got on the show to Extreme Makeover. They did my final surgery.

Speaker 1: 9:27

Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 9:29

Right, right, right, but that is a game changer for me, right? So that's part of the things that I said. I have to wrap up certain things in my life so that I can move forward. So I put a pin in the music, I put a pin in the acting and I got that part taken care of. I got on that show and they brought me to LA for the first time. So that's 2005. So just for some context of how long you know the journey goes. So in 2005, I'm on this show. It changes everything for me.

Speaker 2: 10:00

I couldn't have planned it that way. You know. I'm on Larry King, I'm sitting next to him in LA and you know, just living it up, seeing how they do things and then realizing like, ok, are they going to let me in this industry this way? And at that time it was kind of the reality TV versus scripted TV battle. People were like why is there so much reality TV on and all of that kind of nonsense where really it's just entertainment? But I did have to start over. I had to go back to acting classes, I had to learn how to act, I had to learn how to audition, I had to learn how to screenwrite and all of that thing. So when I got out here after the show and I'm trying to get in the industry, I'm all green, going to auditions and I clearly see I'm not up to snuff. I'm not on the level of these people. They're killing it. Let's go back to the lab.

Speaker 2: 10:57

So around 2009-ish 2008, I get really serious about being in the entertainment business. I put songs on TV shows. In the meantime, I worked accounting contract jobs, I did background work, I did work. I worked the events. You get in where you fit in. That really is the model.

Speaker 2: 11:23

You go around you high-five people, you make them feel good about themselves. You learn your craft, you hone your craft. It takes so long to figure out what you want to say. Right, forget just making a show. Like why do you want to make a show? What do you want to tell people? You know I'm not a ego-driven person, so I really had to sit down with myself like what am I trying to express? What do I want people to leave with when they watch something I make? How do I want them to feel? You know, is it just about money? Is it about women or the other things? Like, know, those are all things that get you off track. It's really easy to get caught up in the drugs, the lifestyle you know, and I didn't want that to be what my career was about.

Speaker 1: 12:12

All right. So, jo, what you just said resonated with me, particularly the part on how long it takes, because I feel like, personally, right, but I don't give a shit. Lots of people out Sometimes they feel like yo, I don't give a shit. Lots of people sometimes they feel like yo, this is taking forever. And sometimes you feel like, am I doing something wrong?

Speaker 1: 12:32

But it's the process, right, it's, it's just like you said, like you have to try a thing. You see that you're not up to snuff. You have to take away yourself, as we say, and go back to the drawing board. And let's just be honest, the process just does take long. It just feels like it's shorter for other people because we're seeing the top of their iceberg, but we don't understand how long it really takes.

Speaker 1: 12:58

So you know, you just really gave a really quick timeline from when that spark first came, going out to LA, then deciding to okay, let me try a few things. And then, in the trying the few things, knowing that I'm still not even anywhere where I need to be. I think that's where the frustration is right. All right, you're learning different angle of the business. You work on events, you do the jobs, you understand the contracts them of that on the side, you know. But there are moments in in my day I'm not speaking about you, so if you relate to this, you know you find yourself doing a little bit of that. And then there's moments in the day I say, all right, I'll do all of that, but you're still a look down upon the runway and it's way out there and if I don't catch myself quick I can get lost in feeling hopeless, like not hopeless, they're just like I know what you mean Down trotting.

Speaker 1: 13:59

Yeah, you know what I mean. Like yo, I'll do all of that. I'm right here, so I'm going. She's like yo, I'm going to do all of that. I'm going to write here, so I'm going to look, like, look, how much further it is to go, and it can be easy to give up in those moments. So how do you handle those moments where you're just like I've been doing all this work I know there's more to do, but I'm nowhere where I need to be? Like how do you handle those?

Speaker 2: 14:21

And then we'll go back to your story need to be like, how do you handle those? And then we'll go back to your story. I'll say the my youth prepared me for this. Like, to me, this is nothing right, because I don't mean nothing like, like it doesn't matter, but it's in comparison to what we had to endure to get here, this isn't what matters. What matters is you, us having this conversation, conversation your family, your loved ones. I mean, the pandemic kind of showed us what's important.

Speaker 2: 14:50

But I am a firm believer that storytelling is one of the most important things to the human experience. That's how we learn, that's how we grow, that's how we honor the past, that's how we commemorate things that we should keep going forward traditions, all of those things. So that's what drove me, because you can't go through something and then forget it when you come up against something that's similar. If I dealt with it at 15, when I'm 25, it's going to be a 25-year-old version of it, but I've seen it before. So keep it calm, keep the composure and then navigate accordingly. And it's the same way.

Speaker 2: 15:33

This industry has so many, so many alleys. You know, sometimes dead ends. You can get on the show, the show get canceled. You write something. You write five things. Nobody wants any of the five. You're about to move back home and then six years later somebody calls you like, hey, you know that thing you wrote, we want to do it, and now your life changed.

Speaker 2: 16:03

So it's almost like playing a lottery, but it's a lottery that you know you can win. It's a lottery, you know, if I keep going this route, if I keep putting in work, if I keep doing my due diligence, it's going to work out and that's how my life has gone. So that's the faith I kind of I keep with. You're not doing what you're supposed to do, you're rolling the dice, but if you're doing what you need to be doing, you intentional about it. My wife says it to me from time to time. She's like you always land on your feet. I say to the people in my, in my circle you always land on your feet because you will, we you know how many times have you, you suffered a setback in your life? So up to this date you won. Everyone you know I mean.

Speaker 1: 16:43

Yeah, I love that you said that, if you're doing what you're supposed to do, because the distraction comes right, because you feel like what I'm doing now works, so let see something, you get distracted, right, that's a setback in a way, because it's going to take you on a different journey.

Speaker 2: 17:14

So you make a left when you could have went straight. Now you gotta go the left route and you do have to go the whole route till you come back.

Speaker 1: 17:20

So exactly, exactly that. Um man, um yeah, I'm, I'm, I feel like man. You're going to hold a reason and you know let's move off from that. But I do want to just put a pin in that point. Like a lot of times what we're doing feels monotonous, it's not getting us anywhere, but it is the path right. And if we look like in a previous episode I said to a friend, don't go you saying can I run? I look right, I still win Right, that's not us.

Speaker 2: 17:54

Everybody can't do that.

Speaker 1: 17:55

Everybody can't do that Right. So look straight, run your wrist, run through the tip, lean at the finish line and you know, and then do your dance Exactly.

Speaker 1: 18:06

Right. So one of the reasons that I wanted to have this conversation with you, as I started before, I feel like the industry you're in media and entertainment is one of the last frontiers for us as people of Caribbean heritage, us as Jamaicans and then broadly, people of Caribbean heritage People already are top boat with food jerk chicken. You know they're taught about oxtails. You know our music has taken over or dances have taken over, and so I feel like media and entertainment seeing ourselves on the small screen and big screen more is like the last frontier for us in terms of takeover. I didn't want to say takeover, but you know what I mean with takeover. Right, because the talent is there, the stories we can't run out of stories. It's in abundance. Right, it's never ending An immigration story.

Speaker 1: 19:08

For me, coming to Brooklyn is different for your mom going to Miami, different from someone going to California, texas, right, it's a similar experience, but the stories are different. Right, ask about what your thoughts are on where the future is for us on that, because you know, if you're following the news, you know platforms are being acquired, businesses are being sold, you just said it. You know shows are being canceled, things aren't being picked up and, to your point, there are other people better than you out there, right, and so it's not as easy. You know, I had a previous episode where someone was just like they're not just hiring Caribbean people for roles, you know. And if you're not part of the union, that's another hurdle that's going to impact you and all that. So, from where you sit, from your, your experience, what are your thoughts on this whole last frontier, like star trek?

Speaker 2: 20:13

I have a lot of thoughts on this.

Speaker 2: 20:15

Right, I'm ready for all those thoughts bring it so I do a little consulting on the side and, um, this is something I run into a lot because people watch tv and they instantly it. It's human nature. You see somebody on TV, if someone kind of looks like you or maybe you just love the story, you say I can do that, and you can. For a long time they kind of didn't let us behind the curtain to see what the wizard is up to. You know from the Wizard of Oz, what's the wizard doing back there?

Speaker 2: 20:44

But I think the first thing to get in this industry, this business, from what I see, a lot of people don't understand how it works. And what I mean by that is when you say business, why am I talking about art? Because art is life, right, that's music, dancing, all the things you said. That's art, culture is art. That's part of who you are as a human. But when you add the word business to it and you say movie business, music business, television business, all of that stuff, that means money is involved. And if you don't know how they make money and when I say they I mean the businesses If you don't understand how the businesses make money, then you won't know where to get in. It's like double-dutch, right Like the rope, then you won't know where to get in. It's like double-dutch, right Like the rope I go. You got to know where you get in, because if you don't know how, then what are we doing? So first thing I would say is that understanding that advertising, marketing or subscriptions is how they make most of their money. It doesn't matter if it's an album. If you're listening to the radio, it's not about your music, it's about the commercials on the radio. If you're watching TV, if you see a commercial in between your shows, which all of them have ad tiers now, so you understand. That's how they make money. I'm sure you've been reading the trade so you know subscriptions right. Netflix has how many subscriptions, hulu has how many subscriptions. That's how they make their money. So that's the actual dollar transaction. So that's one thing If you want to be in this business, understand where the money is made and who the players are coordinating that money dance, so to speak.

Speaker 2: 22:23

The second thing I would say is understanding the audience versus the customer. So that's two separate people that you have to make happy, because when they put Caribbean people on shows and they talk with that terrible Patois and we all know like yo, that's not a Jamaican accent. You start Googling them, you're like, are they even Jamaican? And you find out they're from like some other country that has no affiliation. But their, their skin is brown or black and they put them on the movie. But you hear them talking like that's not how my country talks, that's not how we act. You know, you see it on screen and you know instantly. So understanding your audience would say Jamaicans don't like when you don't have a Jamaican person speaking Patois or you know a Trini person or whatever island that they're representing, if you're not representing a property, because we're not all one very similar, but not all one. So that's understanding your audience. So that's on the creative side. But on the other side of that is understanding your customer. But on the other side of that is understanding your customer.

Speaker 2: 23:28

You have to make sure that the network, that the sponsors, that the studios, the advertisers are happy too.

Speaker 2: 23:42

So you have to tell an authentic story that they want to share with the masses, which is why it's so difficult to be mainstream. That's the main conundrum where do you want to be mainstream? Or do you want to have your own thing? Because we can have our own thing, we can enjoy it, and then they're going to be looking over and like what you guys doing over there. You know what I mean. Or, if you try to be mainstream, you know it's not going to have all the seasoning and flavors that you're used to or that you like. Which one do you want? Which one makes the most sense for you as a creative, for you as a professional and, in your heart, like do you want to talk to your people or do you want to talk to all the people? You know it's a choice. It's a decision that every creative or every filmmaker or anyone in this industry has to make. Do you want to work with the big players or do you want to build something from the ground up.

Speaker 1: 24:35

Both sides are needed and it's not a one trick pony Like you need all of it to kind of come together. I love that you wrote that down. That is so important and I think the part that I asked someone else in a previous episode was okay. We understand the networks, we understand the big players when it gets confusing and I was telling somebody must have last week what does independent look like? Is it these free platforms? And we just call them name, you know, is it a Roku channel? Is it a one on the, you know, pluto? Whatever all these things are, I don't know. I'm not endorsing one over the other.

Speaker 2: 25:12

All they do is?

Speaker 1: 25:14

it just creates options. It creates so many options that there's inertia, because I'm just like I'm going to know which one for what. So you default to what's familiar or comfortable and then remember, I like to watch TV. So, I have more streaming platforms than my friends yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:33

Like I have all the things right. Some people are like I'm only paying for this Right, so let's talk about that independent side, like what are the challenges there? Cause it seems like that is the way that most people are going, because the majors are harder to get onto. But I also feel like there's a struggle with these streaming platforms, because there are so many, and which one is going to get me the most views for my project. So let me know your thoughts on that one for my project.

Speaker 2: 26:09

So let me know your thoughts on that one. That's actually where my heart lies. I am very much a DIY do-it-yourself person. I love the independency. That's where I got my start. I worked at a small independent production company called Black and Sexy TV for a long time and in that process I got to, you know, a front row seat of how it is, you know. That's why I said that you start your own thing and they're going to look over the fence and be like what they got going on over there? What am I going on with? You know they're watching you and if it gets popular, that's when they send the invitation hey, come to our party, come talk, let's talk about things and they see how they could collaborate. So there's to our party, come talk, let's talk about things, and they see how they could collaborate. So there's really no way outside of that. You have to go.

Speaker 2: 26:54

When we added business, we added money. When you say art, it's just art. When you say business now, you have to see where the money is. And so the players who are courting you, so to speak, you bring your talent, your audience, your viewership, and they bring their finance and their knowledge in that area and that's where the collaboration and partnership happens. There's no short answer for building up your brand.

Speaker 2: 27:21

Get a good idea, you start that process, you start putting it out, you get a regular cadence, you get word of mouth as the money starts to trickle in. You do ads, whether it's on social media or radio commercials, just like everybody else in business newspapers. You do have to be creative, right, because you don't have as much resources as the bigger companies, but it's the same process. You get the word out, you knock on people's door, you call them, you text them, you text your granny if you need to, whoever can help you tell somebody else. You know, I know about whatsapp, my aunt and everyone from the island. I haven't been to the island in so long and yet I know everything. I feel like that's going on.

Speaker 1: 28:08

So I feel like them boss, the auntie them and the grandma them on the whatsapp. And I remember when I just come America, how am I going to talk to my grandmother in Jamaica after right? And then they came out with phone card, call them card, call them back. You know, go scratch right. And then they came out with the cheap phone cards yeah, $5, $3, $1 card. And so you know we see the evolution of the technology. So them in Jamaica can just WhatsApp and then can call me WhatsApp and it's not, it's them credits, it's the extra money or whatever. So it makes the communication just faster and to see them just. I mean sometimes it's pure chain mail them a forward.

Speaker 1: 29:02

But I'm glad for them to learn to use the technology.

Speaker 2: 29:06

Use the technology, exactly Right. Those chain letters, exactly Right. Those 10 letters, don't stop.

Speaker 1: 29:11

Like, who is forwarding all of these things to you? Like, oh, you get it, oh why? But here we are telling a story within this conversation. So I do get that the independent portion is the most viable portion for especially Caribbean creators. Right, I think. As a consumer, a lot of times it feels like I don't see where these platforms are. Right, the marketing. So in terms of awareness for the audience, right, you just told us about the audience and the consumer. What more can the platforms do to reach an audience? What are the opportunities to connect with the audience? What are you seeing? Because I really feel like it might feel like you reach the audience, but it's just a small segment of the audience that you're reaching. So curious to hear your thoughts on that.

Speaker 2: 30:06

You know, that's the lesson I learned, where I realized ambition is not going to get it all done Right. So I told you early on, I realized I wasn't enough to snuff, tighten up my belt, went to classes, got trained, got right, get all the work to hone the craft, and then realize, like you know the old saying, it's not what you know, it's who you know you're like. Oh, another, another obstacle, right? So in that I realized you do have to show up for people. You do have to. If you're creating, you have to find out who else is creating. If you're exhibiting your own film at a festival, what other films are in that festival? Meet those directors, meet those producers, meet those marketers right? Who's hot right now? Who's popping? Who you see on Instagram going viral? Who are these people? You got to get in them DMs. You have to go to their birthday party like their photos. You really have to support other people. That's really what I'm getting at, if I put it in a nutshell you know what this feels like and it's the same concept.

Speaker 1: 31:19

You know, like I've never been a party promoter, but you know how dance go in our community. Somebody, I keep a dance, you have a show for the dance. Like I you know, say, a couple months down the road you're gonna keep your dance and you want people come out here and I'll say you want your dance a lot.

Speaker 2: 31:32

So it's the same process same, and because I've worked in so many industries and I've been around a little bit, you start realizing oh, that's what Einstein meant. Right, it's all relative. So just because it's over there, it's transferable. The skills are transferable, the methods are transferable. I said, when you add business, it kind of makes it so you know how it's going to go. You know what to expect. There's always going to be unexpected things, but once you know what you're dealing with, you can kind of navigate around it. It's like what's the saying? You have to know the rules to break them. So I had to learn how to act before I could even start talking about. Oh yeah, I'm an actor. It's like I learned how to act. I learned how to conduct myself on the set, who the players are. It's like okay, you want to level up? Who are the networks? Who's paying for all of this? Learn that, okay. Who are the movers and shakers? Oh yeah, I need to go talk to you. This is what I have going on over here. I made this show, or I know this actor and he has my script and he wants to be in it. You have 20 grand. Okay, cool, cool. If you give me that 20 grand, I give you 20 or 120 on it, or. And then we'll go talk to this network it's the unity tree, right? We all hold hands and we walk into the office and we say, hey, we have millennials, women, uh, black, caribbean descent, they make Caribbean descent, they make 80 to 120K a year and they like single camera comedies. You know, and this is what we make and this is our pitch deck, this is our show and we know it will do this, this, this and this. So now, whatever business that you're pitching to or network and say, okay, I like that, I want to buy ad time on your website, I want to buy ad time. Or I want your actor to promote my product on his Instagram these are the ways that you start getting the money in so that you can build it. And it's like I'll give you 40K.

Speaker 2: 33:45

So now the 20K from my new partner, my friend I met at the dance. He said or at the party that's 20K, that'll pay for the script. Then I go to the marketer or the business and they said they'll give me 40 grand if I have the actor, because they like the actor, they're up and coming, if they do three posts a week for six months, they'll give me 40k. I get the 40k. Now I have 60 and I still have the same script.

Speaker 2: 34:14

But you see how the money started coming in. Maybe I want to use the artist music, like, hey, I don't have money now, but at the end, once we sell the tickets, I got you. Okay, I'll do the score and score, and they call it in kind. So now I get free music in my thing, so I don't have to worry about that cost. So now my budget stays low. You know what I mean? These are just tricks and tricks. I'm spitballing here, so don't hold me to these numbers. But you kind of see how it goes, right, you make the friends. You see who's doing what. How can I help you? How can you help me? What is my goal? What's your goal? Ok, we have this syncopation there. Ok, that's cool. Let's, let's make more money on this. And then when the movie comes out, everyone eats, everyone's happy. You know, hopefully it's a bad movie. Thank you for coming.

Speaker 1: 35:07

We'll do better next time yes, and, and those things happen and I think to that point, you know, black creators, caribbean creators, we're not given the same grace to make a movie that bombs right, you know everything out the gate have to, you know, shot, which is unfair because there's so much more mediocre project Menangokalo name, but anyway, no. But I mean, I mean they're allowed to make movies about nothing and things that make no sense and we aren't given the same grace. That's just kind of what I'm I'm seeing.

Speaker 2: 35:48

So and that is the who you know portion, right, because they know or they have, they've known it. Maybe it's like a nephew, you know we call them nepho babies, right?

Speaker 2: 35:59

Like yeah, babies, right like yeah, yep, you're gonna let your nephew make a movie if you, if you have that, if you have that ability to now, if it's a bad movie, now you know you can't make no more, but we have to be in that position, yeah, and we're getting there, but it's you're. You're so right, they don't give us opportunities and you can't make a bad step. So the pressure is always there and that's really what kind of inhibits us, because we don't want to fail. We know we're doing it for everyone behind us and if it's bad, it's going to take another three years, five years, ten years for them to get another shot. So, yeah, you're so right with that. You do have to make it count, but that's how that's our life. Unfortunately, we don't have the the ability to fail. Like we know, everything counts. We know we have to do it for ourselves, for our parents and for our children yeah, absolutely there's no way around it yeah, it is exactly that right is sure.

Speaker 1: 36:59

It's them saying sure, yeah for sure, this is right, and and that in itself creates a level of pressure for the creator and their project. All right, so let's talk about some of the projects that you've worked on and tell the audience a little bit more about your portfolio of work.

Speaker 2: 37:21

Where to start the first major things I did. Back in the day MTV had a show called Real World Road Rules. Getting to LA, I told you music was the first love. So I figured out how. Maybe I didn't want to be an artist, a recording artist, but I love music and I love making songs. Maybe I didn't want to be an artist, a recording artist, but I love music and I love making songs. So I learned about music licensing and I put music on those shows early on. So Real World and Roll Rules I gave them a beat CD, myself and friends.

Speaker 2: 37:54

Here you go and all of those times you're watching TV shows and you hear the little you know what. I mean the little, whatever song you like, what song is that? You don't know what song it is, but somebody made that and I was one of those people who used to make those songs. That's how I kind of got the bug and I realized, oh, you can just send an email. You can just send. Yeah, I mean, it's so simple, but they make it so hard, the barrier to entry, because we don't know.

Speaker 2: 38:27

After those shows I did a lot of like, uh, acting background work, all types of comedy, I did improv. I worked with a group called given still for a long time and we would do entrepreneur, right. So we would do live shows, uh, live comedy shows. I'd have a comedian do stand-up dancers come, yeah, and just make it a whole event, right, you spend $20 and you just hang out, kind of like a live wilding out situation.

Speaker 2: 38:54

And then from there, black in Sex and TV I found them Before that it wasn't so many Black people, but I found the Black people in LAA who were making content. I'm like let's go. And they were working with Issa Rae and please forgive me name dropping, but you know, lean away, they were there Numa Perrier Numa is also she's a co-founder with Dennis of Black and Sexy TV. I did sound for them, I was their PA, I worked my way up, I became a writer on their web series. Some of their popular ones Roomie, lover, friends, chef, julian, hello, cupid, the Number Reboot yeah, those were like some of their hit web series. And from there they gave me my own. Well, I should say I created one and then we talked and I built up that, that equity with them. Right, they know me, we have the relationship and I created a hit for them called rider, which was about a ride share driver in la back.

Speaker 2: 39:57

When lyft and uber first started, everyone thought you were weird for letting someone in your car. And the first I want to say the first week I'm driving and some woman she's like I have to get out the car and her baby's with her and she's like can you watch my baby? I was like what Like? And I was like what like? What you mean, can I watch your baby? So, me being adventurous, I'm like, okay, let's see how this plays out, because I'm about to call. I'm about to call child services I was about to say adventurous you're living on the edge jail for real, for real, definitely.

Speaker 2: 40:41

In that moment it was one of those. You know, you have someone in your car, a stranger. They're like do I help this woman or do I just turn away and say, get out of here, crazy lady, I'm not watching your baby? I decided to watch the baby and that day I went to a friend's house, ricardo, who co-created the show with me. Hey, we have a show to make, because my life as a driver is bananas.

Speaker 2: 41:06

And from there that took off and that just spiraled into other things as I became a director and writer. And then recently I directed a film called Green Trip short film. It won a bunch of awards, so it's really just a progression. Right, I started as an actor, or really as a songwriter, and then you know what? Songwriting is cool, but I love TV. Let me act.

Speaker 2: 41:33

Started acting, realized that doing all these auditions isn't for me, right, I don't know the people. It's 10 black men. We all kind of look alike. The most popular one wins. Fine, I understand that. But I also know how to work a pen. Let me write my own thing, wrote my own show. I'm the lead, I'm the star. Hey, hello Hollywood, I'm here. And that takes off. It gets on BET. They air certain episodes that I'm in or that I've written, and then you just keep going up like, oh, writers don't have all the power that I need to do things, let me produce. Producers are cool, but I want to control. You know what I wish? They zoomed in right there because that Carrie Ann just looks so good in the camera. I need to get a close up of that. You know that's the director's mind, so I took it there and now it's like oh, executive, who's making the decisions on what shows? Because we don't have enough black or caribbean people. So guess what? Let go, let's go listen.

Speaker 1: 42:36

I you're talking my language because I'm I'm like I'm the one sitting there, so I could do that direction. I feel like I could do that. Maybe it's my armchair TV watching, but I just love the story that you're telling and I also want to call out something that I've always said my side hustle. It feeds the full-time job, and the full-time job feeds the side hustle because you're learning skills from these different areas and it is. You know, I'm not knocking anyone who doesn't have a full-time job or prefers to do that, but I want people to lean in and say there are things that you're learning at your full-time job that is very important knowledge for you to have, or and it's valuable to someone else you just have to find the right person. It's valuable too.

Speaker 2: 43:31

It's so true. I'm so glad you said that, because that is something I get grief for, right, it's like a workaholic you're doing too much and you know I said Jamaican, another job. They come for me all the time with that, but I'm one person and the experience I get from my day job or the things I'm exposed to in my day job, they help my other endeavors. Like, rich people have a lot of diverse income streams so you can't look at it. I mean, if you're focused on the money, you can't just look at your job and say, oh, that's all I do, like I said that's 24 hours in a day. I told you all these things I do creatively, but right now, are you familiar with TED Talks?

Speaker 1: 44:19

Yep.

Speaker 2: 44:20

So I'm a speaker coach for TEDx Inglewood, which is a city in Los Angeles, and it's the skills of directing right.

Speaker 1: 44:30

When I'm done JO is going to be my manager, producer and director, because JO over here doing the most, but I like it. Jo said resume long, like longer than the Ten Commandments.

Speaker 2: 44:50

But it's true, though the skills I learned as a director. I have to work with actors. I have to make them feel comfortable, help them memorize their lines. Now I'm a speaker coach for people doing TED Talks right, I get to help them express themselves on that stage in a clear, concise way, learn their dialogue that they wrote. I give them the encouragement to be recorded so that they feel their best selves when they're up there and thank you for my TED Talk. That's how it goes.

Speaker 2: 45:23

I wouldn't have learned that if I wasn't a director. I wouldn't even been exposed to that if I wasn't doing like DEI work at work and realizing, oh, I need to give back to the community. I'm doing all this me, me, me stuff. I want to direct, I want to write, I want to make a movie. It's like hold on, I'm taking so much from LA. Let me give something back from LA. I can volunteer my time. I can help people who are giving amazing talks to make the world better, the community better. You know what I got you I'm going to help you practice your talk and deliver something that's going to impact the community Three separate things that all fuel me and empower my creativity and business.

Speaker 2: 46:06

And all of that because it does come back. You know, I get to meet certain people in the city who are in charge of permits. Perhaps or maybe I go to a dinner and I meet that financier who's like I've been looking for caribbean content, i't find it and I just have $100 million waiting to spend. It's like you know what, guess what, and I know you now right. So I know a platform. It's like hey, caribbean folks, I can advertise for creators. You see how we do it.

Speaker 2: 46:37

Purr, purr purr, purr and that's how we do it, that's how we build the infrastructure and that's how we make sure it's our face on the screen, so that it's not just a Bob Marley movie, it's a a Ron Marvin movie, and we don't know who Ron Marvin is, but maybe him do something in Jamaica that we need to highlight.

Speaker 1: 46:56

you know, I'm saying no, I mean, you are exactly right. So I started a new podcast called Reels and Rhythms with my creative partner in crime, michaela, and really it was Black Cake that propelled me to create it. Anyway, we start Reels and Rhythms and I have a list of projects. They have strong Caribbean characters, strong Caribbeanibbean storylines, right, so it doesn't have to be everything caribbean. We. We talk about shirley ralph on abbott elementary.

Speaker 1: 47:31

Her character is phenomenal, phenomenal, that's how we show up our work yeah every time she talks and parts like, why was she reading the tree little pigs in jamaican, right? But but we love it because that's what we do, right. So so it's, it's those little things. We we have a rating system on reels and rhythms and we, like, as an audience, you know, we focus a lot on accents and accents are important. But I can be more lenient with the accent if there's a stronger storyline and there's a stronger character. If it's just a walk-on character and the dread, I say Yaman, please get an authentic accent right, do not come with a fake thing, you know, like cause we're not going to get it all and I and I, I've I've given up that requirement to get it all perfectly, but sometimes there's a need to get it close to right.

Speaker 2: 48:29

Just real quick to that point. I remember when I was auditioning heavily right, I would go in and they're like this is Jamaican part, we want you to speak Potswana. And you go in and you talk Potswana to them and I'm like, can you say it a little more american? So you want me to talk like this, like you know. So I do have a level of sympathy for some of the actors because I know they get dialed back when you go in there you talk patois for real. They really do come back and say, uh, let's soften that up a little bit, but go ahead, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 49:06

No, but that's exactly why we came up with the rating system Like is the patois good or good enough? Right, and you know, let's be honest with ourselves, right, there are levels of patois. There's scales from understandable to when, just say, exactly, exactly, right, even you, as a Jamaican, say what? In just say so, there, you know, there's a Shirley Ralph on Abbott Elementary Patois, and there is somebody who live Chukwumukw Mako, you know wherever, you know wherever and I'm not disrespecting anybody from those places in Jamaica, I'm just I'm just calling a name, right, somebody from Moby, right?

Speaker 1: 49:52

So Mikhail and I started Reels and Rhythms because we recognize that there are projects on TV that people still didn't know about. You know, there's not enough, like you said, there's not enough marketing. So we talk about it. We talk about it. It's like a book club, but it's TV. We chat it in real life and just give our commentary through the lens of two Jamaican women living, you know, on the East Coast. What we like about it.

Speaker 1: 50:22

It, and even as two Jamaican, we're very different. Michaela is, like you, born here. I was born in Jamaica. We're different ages, we, we have different experiences and those things are important because when we look at the ecosystem for everyone else. They have all these other things. Supporting these projects and when we looked out from a Caribbean perspective, we don't have that same ecosystem or infrastructure. Reels and Rhythms is inspired by my love of TV documentary watching, but also recognizing that, just like how I can produce podcasts, I can give my energy to create this project to support the infrastructure and the ecosystem that you, the creators, the directors, the actors, whatever need. To get people talking about your projects and everyone thinks of viral, you have to start somewhere. Right, it's a word of mouth thing, is a grassroots approach. So I'm glad Joe listen. We love chat and I feel like I can talk to you. So Mago done the conversation right here. So because the people at Mago say like Oaz, really.

Speaker 2: 51:31

It is a great conversation and let me just say this like what you're doing, so important, the energy you bring, you know, just to even reach out, to want to do this, it's needed. You just actually made the case for your own podcast because there's no one else doing it right. There's no one doing it for caribbean people. So here you go rhythms and reels. I said it right rhythms and rhythms of course I flip it.

Speaker 2: 51:58

True, jamaican, right, but that show, now you're in that slot and now we have that. We didn't have it before and now we do so when we create something. I've known some of the, the people who've been on your podcast. You know how to do my research, but, yeah, you had some amazing creators on your podcast already. So now when we make content, we can hail you up and say, hey, this is what's going on and it doesn't have to just be a do a favor thing. It can be another line of income and business for you, because you will I mean, if it's not happening, I'll speak it into existence advertising money is coming for you right. Here come the dollars. So when what you know, any of the airlines, any of the tourist companies, they, they want to find where people are gathered of caribbean descent. Now they have a platform.

Speaker 2: 52:52

It's your platform and so when I'm creating now I say, oh, if I want to reach my caribbean people, then let me go talk to carrie anne, let me put a 15 second ad in her show, let me do something, so you know I mean that's how it goes, something like talk to you.

Speaker 1: 53:07

Don't say we go off and end the conversation here. So because we're the taco you're right.

Speaker 2: 53:12

You're right, you're right. So much, carrie Ann. Thank you for having me. I'm really glad I had this conversation with you. You're amazing, uh, journalist and interviewer. You know I don't know with you. You're amazing journalist and interviewer. You know, I don't know if you call yourself a journalist, but this is journalism, so yeah journalist now.

Speaker 1: 53:32

Thank you so much. Thank you, jo. I'm going to make sure I put the link to your website so people can see what's going on and your social media handles and all the things in the show notes, because people need to be following you, keeping up with you and the other creators, because we already hear, but they're not so near come, yeah, somebody's only a gully creep upon them. I want to show up exactly, you know, like bomb on a reach, like what's going on. So I, I, I, love it. So, audience members, let me tell you, you already know when my vibe with somebody and catch something labrish galore. So we're going to put a pin right here. So JO going to come back when he have a project and ting and ting. And so JO, as I love to say at the end of every episode walk good.