Speaker 1: 0:02

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Carry On Friends, the Caribbean American Experience, and I am excited because I have two fantabulous guests on the podcast today. They are the hosts of the Queens of Social Work podcast. Welcome, queen H and Queen P. How are you both?

Speaker 2: 0:24

Doing well. Thank you so much for having us. Hello, hello.

Speaker 1: 0:29

All right, all right. So why don't you tell the community of friends a little bit and I'll start with Queen H a little bit about who you are Caribbean country you represent or Caribbean countries you represent?

Speaker 2: 0:47

or Caribbean countries you represent. Yes, yes, yes. So I was born here. However, my parents are from Jamaica and Barbados. I love it, I love it, love it. I always like to tell people I'm mixed with black and blacker.

Speaker 1: 0:58

That's too funny. What about you, Queen P?

Speaker 3: 1:00

So I consider myself a worldly character, right? So I am not going to claim one particular place. I will say I am Caribbean because my ancestors hail from many places.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Okay, all right, so she represents a multitude of places as part of the Caribbean region, got it? And so why don't you tell the community a little bit more about the Queens of Social Work podcast? What is that about, and the work you both do as part of the Queens of Social Work podcast? And then I'll add my little take to that. All right, sure.

Speaker 3: 1:36

Well, the Queens of Social Work podcast was really a thought that Queen H and I had as we worked together in very close quarters, that Queen H and I had, as we worked together in very close quarters back in the days, we would sit and laugh.

Speaker 3: 1:54

You know, social workers have a reputation for having dark humor because in the line of work that we are in we see so many tragic things, so many traumatic things, and to kind of get through that, we use laughter as a coping mechanism. Actually, and to kind of get through that, we use laughter as a coping mechanism Actually, I think it's our preferred method. So, because we tend to laugh and kind of lean on each other to deal with all of things going on during the day, we decided you know what we need a place to really share our stories, to laugh, cry, learn, to educate, to support and uplift and, you know, and help bring the next group of social workers along, got it, and so, for Full Transparency, community of Friends, I am the editor of their podcast, so I get to learn a lot about the work that they do as social workers and get to listen to some of the conversations they have.

Speaker 1: 2:44

They're just wrapping seven seasons and so they've been at it for two years, and so I wanted them to come on the podcast because, you know, for a while I got this question. We did a friends episode and I thought that they'd be the perfect guest to come on and do not really a part two, but a follow up conversations to the topic of friendship, which is it's not necessarily a hot topic, it's an ongoing topic because, from the year was one, friendship was a thing like before we started recording culturally. We're talking about all the songs Well, I was trying to sing them off key all the songs in our culture that talk about friendship, right, I know I'm a friend different from my enemy, and you know who want an iron balloon and friend up family, all these good things, right? So I want to start off with the question that an audience member asked me, and we'll take it from there, and the question was how do you know when it's time to break up or say goodbye to a friend.

Speaker 1: 3:58

There's a variety of reasons why you want to say goodbye to a friend. You know it could be. You've outgrown each other. There was, you know, something that happened that maybe one person just can't get past it. They can't forgive a variety of reasons. So when you outgrow or you want to say goodbye to a friend, is it an official breakup, like when you break up with a boyfriend? Is it a quiet breakup, like let's stop chatting? How do we get to that?

Speaker 2: 4:28

So, queen H, I'll start with you the tension or the disruption in the friendship and sometimes you can quietly quit, like the new generation is quietly quitting their job. That's a new thing. Or sometimes it is after a conversation or a big blow up and you're just like, listen, this is it. I can't be your friend, right? But I think it just depends on what the circumstances are level of friendship, because I also think, like if it's like an acquaintance or just like a regular friend, because there's levels to friendship, if it's that, then sometimes you could just quietly quit. We just don't talk. You know what I mean. Like that's it. We grow apart and that's it.

Speaker 2: 5:24

But I think you know, if you say someone is your close friend or your best friend, I think there is a conversation that needs to be had. That's me personally, like don't, don't ghost me. You know what I mean and I'm not going to ghost you, right? If we're close friends like that, because if I say you're my best friend or you're my close friend, we should have the ability to have a conversation and say I don't like when you do this thing, or you know, I don't like how I felt when this happened. We should be able to have that conversation.

Speaker 2: 5:59

But you know, we know that some people, unfortunately, are not emotionally intelligent. You know, we know that some people, unfortunately, are not emotionally intelligent. Sometimes people don't know what to say. They don't, you know, for a variety of reasons. They may not have the courage to say this to the person. Maybe the person that they want to engage in this conversation with may be overbearing, maybe, or not receptive to having the conversation. So then that's a whole other token. But I think a best friend or a close friend, you should at least have a conversation like hey, you know, this is what's going on and I don't like this, right. And then from there, you know, if things do not change or it just still doesn't feel right, sometimes people then begin to quietly quit the friendship. You know.

Speaker 1: 6:44

Queen P. What are your thoughts on this oh?

Speaker 3: 6:47

my I have to say, for somebody who don't carry nobody right, I don't bring, I don't take. Friendship is hard work to me in my experience. But I will say that I've definitely done all of the three. I've had a friendship specifically with a best friend that we had a breakup conversation right. There were a lot of things that had taken place in the relationship I think that were traumatic on both ends and we talked it out and said you know what, let's just go our separate ways. And there was no tears. It was very much of a respectful, mutual understanding of where we each stood and that our friendship had run its course right.

Speaker 3: 7:25

I've had acquaintances or you know kind of friend-like relationships where I'm like you know what, I'm not bringing you into the next season, boo, so let's drink this Hennessy one time and go about our business because you can't come.

Speaker 3: 7:37

No, sir, I don't need no baggage, so stay where you're at. And other people you know other relationships I've had. It's definitely been a quiet quitting, like Queen Ace was talking about. Like she said, friendship has levels and each of the levels of friendships that I've had there's been that give and take, there's been conversations and some just weren't worth any and I think, ultimately you know, in your own judgment and using your own discernment, you know who's worth the conversation and who's not. In your own judgment and using your own discernment, you know who's worth the conversation and who's not. You know if the relationship has enough weight for you or it doesn't. Right, sometimes you're in someone's life because you bring something of value to them. They don't necessarily bring it to you Right, and you got to use your own judgment and how you want to communicate what the changes are.

Speaker 1: 8:22

So you both said really good things and, like Queen P, I've been in situations where it started out like very okay, listen, rete, te. And at the end of it it was probably a little bit more terse than how it did start out. And then for the most part they're just when you outgrow friends, it's this quiet, quitting right, it's this drifting apart, to the point where you don't say something and you know some people just stop calling or they stop reach out and me, just stop, do the same, right. I'm not going to ask. I don't think it's in my personality to say what happened, why you don't call me back. And you know, queen H, you said it's something about emotional.

Speaker 1: 9:10

It's been my experience that when you have those come to Jesus conversation about the status of the friendship there's a lot of, is this ingenuous. You know it feels like sometimes people having that conversation because they know they need to have the conversation but they still going to walk away the foolishness. So I don't want to have that conversation. Come and know you're still going to the foolishness. But since you both are social workers and you know, you know you're licensed to help us think right, act right. You know. I mean, tell me what, what's flawed in my approach to this having the sit down conversation and say listen, it's not working and maybe some tips to have those conversations, because for the most part I see it from a distance, like Barry's and Midas, like all right later.

Speaker 2: 10:00

So, oh, my goodness, oh my goodness.

Speaker 2: 10:04

So you know, I guess in this duo cause she talked about, Queen P talked about not having friends all the time, but she does have friends. Okay, contrary to popular belief is just, she has very good boundaries with people and she decides who's close to her and who's not. And I'm not saying that I do not as well, but I tend to have a little bit more friends, and so I think having a conversation is important and something that you said. Yes, people should know us, but I also think that we all grow in chain.

Speaker 2: 10:59

Friendships are relationships. Just like you have a man or a spouse I don't want to leave anybody out so your spouse, right. You have to grow with them as well, right. And you're constantly communicating about changes, right, the core of you is the same, like if you met me and I was a caring person, you know. You know I have integrity, you know those qualities. That's one thing, but we do change in relationship because we are growing as people. There should always be growth as a person.

Speaker 2: 11:25

So even in our friendships, there are going to be certain conversations that we will need to have, if we're friends, on the growth of who we are. I think what the challenge is, is that when our friend is growing and we're not allowing them to grow in different ways, or our friend is growing and we're not allowing them to grow right In different ways, or our friend is changing in certain ways that may not be conducive to them you know, being a productive person in society, or just you know they, their change is not akin to who they are, right, they're their qualities. And then we have a conversation and they are not accepting that. That's another conversation. You understand, like there are two different things going on here. Yeah, but I think really, as I said before, if we have a certain level of friendship, we should be able to have a conversation. I'll give you a prime example One of my best friends and P laughs at this because I tell her I have five or six best friends- I'm coming back to that best friend thing.

Speaker 1: 12:38

Hold on.

Speaker 2: 12:40

So I have five or six best friends, right and um, but they're my best friends for a certain reason. Now am I taking any more best friend? No, I have enough Um, but I do have really close friends. Or I have sister friends, so they would be equivalent of a best friend, but I just we can't have no more title. Okay, you know we just we're close, we know that. I know you have my back. I love you long time. We are sisters, that's good.

Speaker 2: 13:11

One of my best friends. We became best friends in high school and throughout time, you know, our, our friendship has evolved, but we've remained best friends. You know she's one of the closest people to me remain best friends. You know, she's one of the closest people to me. And the thing is, as we began to grow and, let's say, she got married, I was used to at one point speaking to her every day, right, and then it started getting a few and far between. I was like, oh, what's happening here? I don't like this. You know you change it. You know you change it. You got a man, you change it.

Speaker 2: 13:47

I one had to check myself, right, because the reality is is that when someone you know is in a relationship becomes a parent. Even if they change job, their level of time is going to be different. So I have to have the understanding that the change may be because the level of time is different. If I'm feeling forgotten, I need to say that. What would I say to my man Right, you busy working, you ain't paying me no attention. So I'm going to tell this is my best friend, so why can't I tell my best friend that? So I ended up having a conversation and I was like yo, you know what's going on. Why are we talking as much? You know, I feel like I'm the one calling you more. What's happening? The first thing she said you know what? Thanks for checking me. My bad, I apologize.

Speaker 2: 14:41

Some of the reason why you're not hearing from me from so much is because you know as much as you love my husband. He be ear hustling. He feel like you, his best friend too. So sometime I know that you want to tell me something in private, so I'll try to wait till I'm alone, and then that alone time sometimes don't happen, right? So what I'll do from now on is we'll talk, but I'll let you know I have you on speaker or you know somebody is in the background. So you know not to say this thing, right, and we can still have our conversation and I say fair enough, right, and it is true Right. Listen, that's my best friend. Her husband is my best friend-in-law, you understand. That's my guy. You know what I mean. But you know he's friendly, he want to be in the conversation. There's sometimes he can't be in the conversation. You understand what I'm saying Because I'm chatting. You know, talking certain things that's only for her. You know what I mean. So I think being able to have that conversation is important.

Speaker 1: 15:46

No. So let me clarify before the audience thinks that I'm a Madix right, I'm not crazy. I'm not out here just chopping and cutting off people. I used to do that when I was a little kid. So I do understand life changes and I have very good friends that I grew up with and I don't talk to them as much as I used to do 15 years ago, 20 years ago, but we still communicate, right, we still text, you know, I mean my friends all look at me and I have no time since I've been doing carry on friends and all the things right, but we do communicate.

Speaker 1: 16:21

So life changes, work changes, life changes including marriage. You know children, you know all these things like. We get that and those deserve a conversation, even though how much conversation they really need, if you observe, say they're married, they're acting wild, they're young. I think there's an, at least for me. I'm understanding and empathetic and intuitive enough to know that this is happening in their life and I will say a check like yo, your mark, see if you're good. You know like something like that. And then they'd be like yo and you know like stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 17:00

But I guess the breakups that I'm thinking of in my head that deserve a breakup are those where there's an infraction and something happened and, you know, did you do something today? I will not say, queen H, why you step on my toe. I'm going to look at you and if you don't even realize you step on my toe, I'm going to let it slide. But if you keep stepping on my toe, we're going to have an issue. Okay, right, because you know, and some people might say, well, you should have said something. It could have been an accident, you know.

Speaker 1: 17:35

But like, if I and Queen H are my besties but realize that Minoya me and a friend them with it, and I think those are the other types of relationships we address, when we hold somebody to a certain level of friendship and they don't return that level of friendship, and does that make sense to have a conversation? No, well, well, all right, you all disagree. So, queen P, I'm going to let you jump in and then, queen H, you can rebut me on. You should have a conversation, because if me that thinks of me and you are good, good friend, I'm going to realize that, no, you have me as cool, but you don't have me upon a certain level or esteem. I don't need to have a conversation, because what I do, I beg you to upgrade me. I don't beg you to upgrade me, I don't know. Queen P, help me out here, because I feel like Queen H over here, just liberal like yo, you a friend, you a friend, you a bestie, you a bestie.

Speaker 3: 18:46

Hey, you get a car, you get a car. No, sir, me tell you something, that is not how queen age roll at all, definitely more sociable, but now should not bring your night out, you just don't know anyhow. So, listen, I have to say you were saying earlier about, like, if we're not close, it feels disingenuous to have a discussion, to kind of go down a particular road with why you're not calling me back, why you ain't texting me, why, etc. Etc. And I completely agree, right, like if we're not in each other's lives and we tend to connect. I think human beings have enough intuition, right. Sometimes we don't tap in, right, but you know, if you're holding a vibe with somebody, you'd be like okay, girl, let's go to brunch, okay, nah, you was acting wild, we're not going to brunch again.

Speaker 3: 19:32

You know, I'm saying like you make your judgment based on your interaction with somebody, and I mean you have to be in tune with who you are, what you can tolerate, what you can't tolerate, what's a deal breaker for you in a friendship, in a relationship, even in the founding moments of getting to know somebody, I think at this particular point in one's life you have to use your discernment, as I was saying before, and you know when someone's worth your time and when they're not. Now, for true, if they're not worth your time and you know y'all not close, cool, even if they feel like you might be closer, then you got to wonder about their boundaries, right, because close in general should be a mutual thing. And again, like I was saying, you know sometimes you're in someone's life for a reason that may not benefit you, right, but you see how much value you're able to add to them. But let me, you know, do a good deed then, right, and have this relationship and bring value to this person, because we all need that, everybody needs a hand in life, right, and that's the truth. So you might want to do that or not in life, right, and that's the truth. So you might want to do that or not, but I do definitely think that it's important that you recognize what it is that you are looking for and looking to gain when you interact with somebody, even in those founding moments, because people take the word friendship very, very, um like loosely these days, you know, you meet somebody on the bus all of a sudden that's your friend. Hey, girl, hey, you know people.

Speaker 3: 20:54

Definitely, in this age of social media where everybody is checking in on your life, commenting on your stuff, you know boundaries are very fluid. People are very impersonal. People just say what they want to say. Nobody cares about anybody's feelings, people are just out there and everybody is a friend. Everybody who like your picture is a friend. People want to, you know, not really be in tune with others, but more like post for likes and put things on social media and throw phrases and write subs and it's just like there's that communication with an individual is kind of missing, you know.

Speaker 2: 21:26

I do want to clarify. I don't mean having conversation with people that is not close to you, right, if someone has an infraction and they're close to you, I do think it warrants a conversation, depending on the infraction. If you're sleeping with my man, no, there's no conversation. So that is something different. But I think that if you're close, there is. There are people that let's say there's an infraction, somebody you maybe just, like you said, gone out with, and they just do a little too much. When you go out and you're like that's not my speed, yes, just leave them, there's no conversation, just quietly disappear, right. But I do think if you say, if we are friends and we say we're close friends, or even if, for instance, I see you as a close friend and I recognize you don't see me as a close friend, there's some behavior. I may say something. It just depends, right. Because I do agree, there are times in that situation that you see, oh, I'm calling up this person or I'm doing this for this person, and they're not receptive, they're not being the same kind of friend to me. I may just say, okay, well, I'll stop, I'll just stop being their friend because I don't have time to waste.

Speaker 2: 22:42

I just think it depends on what it is. Sometimes it might be like hey, listen, let me tell you something. I see I'm doing this, I'm doing that and you're not really responding in the way that I feel, or you're not seeing me in the way that I see you. So check this, let me carry myself on, right. You go about your business and I go about my business, and it's okay. No hard feelings. We're just not that kind of friend. It's just simple as that, right? I just think it depends, right. I mean, I've ended friends off the principle of things, right, and they ain't even did nothing to me. They did something to my other friend, Because my thing is, if you did this thing to them, uh-uh, I'm not giving you the time and space to do it to me, right? So I think it just it depends. You have to trust.

Speaker 2: 23:34

Just like P said, we are born with the intuition. We know how something feels, right. Sometimes you do need to talk it out a little bit with somebody, because sometimes we get wrapped up in temporary feelings, right? Temporary feelings that make permanent decisions based off of those things. Sometimes we do have to reevaluate that right, but when we realize that that is not a temporary feeling like no, this is what's really happening. You have to decide what you're going to do. Do you want to have that conversation or just cut them off? Goodbye, you're done.

Speaker 1: 24:08

Yes, all right. So I'm going to wrap that segment up with a little recap. So, when it comes to leaving a friend behind or breaking up, it's up to each person, right? It depends on you. If you're one, that who loves to talk, go ahead and run and have that conversation. If you feel like you know what I'm going to, just let it slide. That's up to you to use that discernment based on the level of closeness you have with this person.

Speaker 1: 24:35

If something happened, an infraction happened, the severity of the infraction is going to determine the level of communication that you are having. And then, if there's a mismatch in how you see the person as a friend and the person don't see you the same way and let's be honest, sometimes we are the villain in somebody's story, so maybe they're the ones who are like I'm being all of this for you and you're not being that. Yes, sometimes that happens. So it really depends on what it is. Using your intuition and I think to Queen H's point before you make a permanent decision, get someone who's neutral to the situation, sound it out with them and then get some sound advice before you make a permanent decision on the friendship and what to do with the friendship. So it's okay to leave friends behind. It's a natural part of life. You outgrow how you deal with that and I think Queen P doesn't say this, but I feel like quietly on mute, you'd be like real G's walk in silence because she's done it too soon.

Speaker 1: 25:49

That's exactly it, I've edited their podcast enough to know their different personalities, and I feel like that's what she would say. So, um, I don't remember which one of you said it, but do you feel like, in this age of social media, that we have been using the term friends very loosely and have expectations of people that without the technology it wouldn't even equate to a friendship, it would be like an acquaintance or something? Do you feel like, in the age of social media, we've become looser in our definition of friendship but our expectations are even higher because of that? And tell me, what have you been seeing or observing in the space? Queen P, I'll start with you. Man, queen H at a chat box, so we'll get you in here.

Speaker 3: 26:47

I was actually the one bringing up social media and how people's expectations have changed. I think that expectations have heightened significantly because we can see everything. Right. People are checking in. When they go to a particular place, how you know the killer ain't searching for you. Why are you checking in at Taco Bell? Take off your notifications and your stuff Like this is the problem. People are checking in, they're tagging in, they're posting people. They're tagging people. They want to share every single part of their lives and their expectation is I'm sharing all of this with the world. I'm sharing all of this for you, people I care about. So you must comment a million comments. You must like all of my photos. You must respond with great feedback Because people are not posting for themselves.

Speaker 3: 27:32

That's not been my experience, right? People are tagging folks and stuff. You're posting what? For yourself? Because you were there, you took the picture, you know, you had the experience and you're bringing all these people in on your experience and, of course, when you do that, you're opening the door for all kinds of feedback, all sorts of things, and you never know after you post something on the internet what kind of feedback you can get.

Speaker 3: 27:54

Right, that's the purpose of trolls to break you down, to humiliate you, to embarrass you, to talk crazy and wild, and you know, to expose whatever it is you have going on. So you got to know that when you open the door, you're the one opening that door and you have to be able to handle and manage whatever comes through it. Right, and I'm not saying that all social media is the devil, but I am saying that, within reason, you have to decide how okay you are with being vulnerable in that space. It's courageous, for sure, right, and there are things that are very touching and very emotional to see, and all of that, and you can definitely garner support right From the right followers. You know if things are happening, um, but it's important that you just um, use your discernment as you post, um, and you know, think about what you're posting, for you know.

Speaker 1: 28:44

I think that's one element of it, right, where there's an expectation like oh, you're supposed to like my picture or comment under my picture, and all of that. But I also feel like I don't even know, because this is much more layered. I realized that I'm not really a friend because I'm not in none of these pictures You're on some flex and I'm not in it, like I thought aren't we friends? Like why wasn't invited, right? So there's that level of that. Right, you're not part of the crew and you thought you were a part of the crew, and that breeds bacchanal, as Queen P would say. Right, queen H, what are some other things you are observing when it comes to social media and friendships and interpretations? Now are friendships and expectations.

Speaker 2: 29:39

Listen, people crazy and we social workers and we don't like that word. You know that's not a clinical word, but when I say crazy I just mean like people are wild, like, um, people feel because you're on social media, you may post something, that they know you and that they can say whatever and do whatever. Um, I don't know if you remember um or if you saw this that there was a social media influencer and she cooks. She's a Jamaican woman, she's married to a Haitian man.

Speaker 1: 30:10

No, she was just on the show. So Helena was just on the show and I asked her about that. That nurse can cook, yes, okay.

Speaker 2: 30:16

So I didn't know if I can mention that her name, but yes, yes, and I follow her. And she had this situation where, you know, she was talking about going to the Beyonce concert and someone just came up to her like, oh, I thought you were a Christian woman, or whatever they said, and so she had to make a post. Listen, let me tell you something. She's better than me. Don't run up on me, you're going to have a problem. Okay, people feel that they know you and so they're going to chat to you a certain way, talk to you a certain way. Yes, you know you can post what you want on social media, and I think you have to have some discernment, Right, and I and I agree with P on that there are things that I do post, like, for instance, I'll post on my stories. You get the 24 hours and it's gone. You know, I know that if I put that there, I expect responses. My expectation is not that you respond, but that some people will respond. Do you understand what I'm saying? You don't have to respond. I'm okay if you don't, right, if you don't see, I'm posting for me and for whatever intention I have, but it's not. I don't care how many likes, I don't care if someone responds or not. Mine is also private. I'm also, you know, very careful about who I save on my you know social media, my personal social media, and I mean the same thing goes for you If you think about podcasting. We're here talking, right? So there are going to be people who really enjoy speaking with us.

Speaker 2: 31:59

Right, for us, on this platform, we decided that we're not very personal in what we speak about. Right? People feel that they will know you and they have a certain connection to you that they may be able to say or do whatever they want. Right? They'll be able to Google where you work, what you do, and they just don't have any boundaries. So, for us, this is a boundary. We do love to talk, we want to teach the next generation, we want to participate in this sphere, but this is the way that we're going to participate.

Speaker 2: 32:33

Right One, because we have jobs, we have generation. We want to participate in this sphere, but this is the way that we're going to participate. Right One, because we have jobs. We have jobs, we have certain lives, and so we decide to protect who we are because people have no boundaries. Mental health is serious, right? People stop. There's a lot of different things and people expect certain things from you, thinking that, oh, we're friends because on social media we have banter. Social media we have banter, that's it. If we don't hang out, if I don't call you on the phone, we're not friends. Me, no business.

Speaker 3: 33:08

Can I just add a piece? You know when this friends business started back in my space or whatsoever, you know, when Facebook got together, everybody you had to add a friend right. Even now, I think, when you add people, it's called add friend, and I think, because they use the word friend instead of the word associate, people really started to get on board with this You're a friend, you're a friend, we're friends on Facebook. We're a friend, you're a friend, you know. And so the idea of having a friend, the idea of having someone close to you, you're sharing pictures, you're sharing each other's lives, because people fill their social media with a lot of personal stuff, right, I think that's how we got to this place, where everybody expects something from everybody else and relationships are fraught with conflict because why you didn't post me? I was in the pic. Why you didn't tag me Right and like you were saying, queen H, I post for my own intentions, okay, I don't care what y'all have going on, mine on a business, thanks.

Speaker 1: 34:05

So wrapping up this point before I go to the other point. So with social media comes a looser interpretation or meaning of friends. Just because of the mechanics of how it works, you have to add someone as a friend, right, and that was intentional. They didn't want to say add a follower, because no one wants to be a follower, but whatever. So they said a friend. And because of that, psychologically we've begun to assume that okay, carry on friends.

Speaker 1: 34:38

And at the Queen of Social Work podcast we're friends on Instagram and that you have some sort of relationship with and they feel excluded because they've gone on your social media and noticed that they aren't part of the friend group, for lack of a better word, right, the incident with Elena and that nurse can cook, that's a, that's a very extreme situation and she handled that and I even asked her if that would make her change and you know she said that.

Speaker 1: 35:18

You know she thought about it and she said if she changed they would win and she's like you know it's part of the space. You have to expect that some people are going to love you and then some people are going to be on the extreme right. But there's an observation with social media that, oh, queen H of a party and didn't invite me, type thing. You know, because I it until after the fact, people are seeing real time that they aren't included in whatever it is because you know hashtag, you know we be 40, you know, you know, whatever it is. So there's that level of that. Queen H, you want to say something?

Speaker 2: 36:16

something, yeah, so just on that point, right, I've had to have this conversation with clients before right, and it goes back to what we started with. There are levels to friendship. You will not be in every circle. As human beings, I think it's quite natural to want to belong, even the people that say they don't want to belong. You want to have some kind of belonging. I don't care what anyone says, right, it is natural to want to belong.

Speaker 2: 36:41

The issue is are you grounded in yourself to know that I do not have to be everybody's friend, I do not have to be every place? You understand what I mean, and I think social media tests that for many people, because if, oh, they had this party and I wasn't invited, oh, okay. I think it's okay to feel salty for the second because you thought you were better friends or you thought you could be a part of this, but then you move on. Okay, that was for them, that's it. You move on. You cannot be everything for everyone, right? And the moment that you accept that a lot of that doesn't bother you. I do agree that because back in the day you didn't have the social media, you wouldn't know that the person had it. You still felt salty when you learned about it after. So that don't change the feeling. I think it is very apparent. This is happening right now, whether it's back in the day or now. You have to be okay. I'm not going to be everywhere, and that is okay.

Speaker 2: 37:47

And the other thing is I do agree with P when she's talking about when you add people on social media. Is this friends thing the only one that I've seen that don't say, oh, add a friend, a blah blah, blah, blah blah is LinkedIn. Linkedin said do you want to add this connection? I think that's a better thing. They should change it to connection, because we're not friends. We're not friends. If I choose to follow your page or you follow, we may not be friends. We are following each other. So if you don't like the word follow, do you want to add this connection? Right, because that's what it is and can a friendship form from that? It is. But if you are not talking to the person outside of the app, you're not friends. You are not friends and you have to have a reality check.

Speaker 1: 38:37

You know, to add a level. I think what we then see is the street brawl on the internet, which is the chore word, you know, subliminals, right, you start to true award for people and I'm just like I'm not with this subliminal. If you talk to me, talk to me with your chest, you know, and talk to me offline, one-on-one. Don't bring the whole community into this, right, and I think we see that play out a lot. People are hurt and in their feelings and because everyone has a platform in their pockets, they go out and they've made a small situation blow up bigger because you're airing your feelings out loud. Once that come out the can, you can't put it back in a box.

Speaker 1: 39:31

So social media has definitely changed. There are some people through the podcast that I've met and I've become close enough to them. We email and it's like that wasn't immediate, that was over time. They would be like you know, hi, I love the episode, thank you, you know, like small touches, and I think there's aspects of my audience that kind of have a similar personality or thought process. Where it's, it still requires time to to build a relationship. So so we we we've talked about leaving a friend behind. We probably should have talked about social media, because that could be a reason why you want to leave a friend behind, because that seems to be the biggest reason. But I want to go back to a third point in this conversation about friends that you brought up right. Everybody have a BFF. Do we all need BFFs? I have good friends from they're still my good friends and we pray and we do all this because my enemy used to go to church, but I don't know if I would call them my BFFs, so I'm going to go to Queen P on this.

Speaker 3: 40:44

You know what I was thinking long and hard about this one A part of me feels like you do need someone who's as close as close can be to you, right? It doesn't matter if you call him a best friend or bestest friend or close friend or good friend association. I'm not into labels, right? I'm very liberal, so I'm not into labels. Matters me not into labels, right, I'm very liberal, so I'm not into labels, matters me not. But I do think that you need someone close to you that you can show up with bare face, not nose, no shoes, no makeup, because life be lifin' and sometimes things hit the fan that nobody is prepared for and you need a person who you can go to. Right? Sometimes it's not the person you met in kindergarten. Sometimes it's not the person you met in college. Sometimes it's your husband, your wife, your partner, right, if there's no gender. Sometimes it's just a soul that you connect with and even though life may pass its time and you may not see the person in 30 odd years, you pick up the phone. That person is there, right. For me, that's friendship.

Speaker 3: 41:47

The people who I consider my friends know I'm not calling their ass. Y'all know I'm not going to call right. Y'all know I'm not going to write, I'm not going to text, but you know that I'm always here. I will drop what I'm doing. We getting on a plane, what's happening? I'm down to ride. The people who know me know that. Call P, because she got the ting, the ting, ting, ting, she ready, okay. So I will say that, um, you absolutely need someone close to you in your life. It is a blessing and an honor to have that and to be that for somebody.

Speaker 2: 42:16

So, contrary to popular belief, I do not think that you have to have a best friend, um, but, but I do think you know, like Pete said, you have to have someone that's close to you, and I think the reason is that you know you have to be able to express yourself with someone and feel that you can trust. I think we see people who have disruption in relationships, difficulty in forming relationships, and we see the discord that it causes in their life, and I think you know, whatever you decide to label it, that's up to you, right, and I do agree. A spouse can be a best friend, a parent, a sibling, cousin. Some people don't have outside friends, they only have family and that's their best, but it's who you determine, that you feel that you can trust, that when the chips are down, you can call. When things are going well and you celebrate that you can call. That will be happy for you, as if it was them right.

Speaker 2: 43:20

You want someone who's there in the good and in the bad, both right, and so relationships are necessary. Relationships are work, and so if your best friend or whoever you say you're closest to, that's work, and sometimes it comes easy, and I agree it may not be the person you grew up with, because trick bag, those people may not allow you to grow into who you are, because they known you since you were younger, and so it may be somebody you met two, three years ago and that is your soulmate, right, and so it's up to you. But it's important to form certain relationships because you do need to support.

Speaker 1: 44:05

We're not here by ourselves relationships Because you do, you need to support, we're not here by ourselves. You know, I think, with everything it's socialized about the labels and the titles right, like oh, so-and-so BFF, and we see it in pop culture, we see it in Hollywood, on TV, you know whatever gossip sites and you feel like you need to have a BFF the way it's mirrored in media and that's not necessarily the case. So, yes, you can have good, good friends, friends that you know I've had, friends that I've known for donkey years now, long, long time. And those relationships, yes, I actually they allow me to grow. As a matter of fact, they will tap me on the shoulder and be like I'm not seeing you showing up the way I know you can show up right, because they know me right. But it's this idea of putting a title, bff goals, that type of thing that you know and we have to be careful not to get into this performance of what other people say.

Speaker 1: 45:11

Best friendship should look like right, because if, if it should look like what's on TV, queen P don't got no best friend or nobody creepy, be like over here, just like picking out our name like I'm good, why you not good? You know I'm good like. But again it goes back to the very beginning understanding, being intuitive, like listening to that gut, like discernment, you like knowing a person, their personality, and knowing that you know it's not going to be, you know, vivacious like Queen H, it's not going to be Chetabox like Carrie Ann, it's not going to be super quiet like Queen P. You are going to find your pocket and whoever you're friends with, they will adjust and they will know. Oh, that's just just so. She's there, she good. Right.

Speaker 1: 46:09

And to kind of wrap up this conversation on friendship, I want to ask you both as clinicians, putting on your clinician hat, like what do you see people do that you wish they didn't do this and would practice healthier habits for the sake of themselves first and then their friendships? Because one of the things that I feel like people do maybe some people aren't good at prioritizing themselves over friendships and some people are the opposite. Right, like me, first me, no business about this friendship. So maybe a balance, like whatever you're seeing in the space, but your thoughts on like healthier behavior for relationships, for yourself and your friendships.

Speaker 3: 46:57

I have to say and you just hit the nail on the head, because that's what came up for me at first when you said it what came up when you said the word balance is exactly it, right, and we need balance in our relationships in general, because in our society and culture, we tend to prioritize work, we tend to prioritize getting the bag, making money over time, and so that leaves little time for you, it leaves little time for rest, it leaves little time for your family worse, your friends, right. So I want to see people step away a little bit if they can. Right, just giving themselves a moment to process what they've experienced and to come back to it when they need to come back to it. We don't allow ourselves a moment. Right, it's like you're choking and you're still going for more food. Right, like, give yourself a break. Give yourself a break. Honor that, because your body is telling you we need a moment. Right. So I want to see people have more balance in their life in general. I want to see people prioritize those who love them. Right, like your friends, those who want to be there, who want to support you. Show up for them. Right, prioritize that.

Speaker 3: 48:08

Some people are takers and some people are givers and there's got to be a sweet spot between the two, and I also want to see people do more of creating boundaries and having conversations, like Queen H said. Queen H started this out like no, you need to talk to people and let them know what time it is, and I'm like, nah, it ain't no conversation because we good, you know what it is. You just, peeps, use your two eye and you know what it is. You know what I mean. But I do think in practice, in session and people who are seeking services and people who are all of us actually need to just open our eyes, have a conversation. And even if that conversation looks like I don't have the capacity today, let me call you back. Let me get back to this Even if that conversation looks like creating a boundary or it may feel like a rejection to the person you're giving it, to honor that too.

Speaker 3: 49:03

Acknowledge how they feel. Sis, I don't want you to feel bad, that my intention is not to make you feel no type of way, but this is where I'm at and I can't really. You know you took back your baby father again. Okay, listen, let me just give me two minutes to fry up this fried chicken and do this rice and peas real quick and let me do a cold slaw on the side and I'll call you back in an hour and a half with my cocktails and we could talk. You know what I'm saying. So it looks all kind of way, but you know, I have to give my example and bring it to the need for boundaries, the need for communication, the need for balance, and that's it.

Speaker 2: 49:39

First of all, y'all don't know, queen P can throw down Okay, the food good, okay. That's why she talked about the food, because she know she a chef, she chef boy ID over there she is chefing it up, he is correcting the boundaries and all of that. As much as I am a little bit more social, I'm with it with the boundaries. You cannot, just because you met somebody and you guys are hitting it off, bury your. I think you, you have to let people earn your friendship, and that sounds rough but it's not right. What level of friendship can they uh uh uh rise to in your life and you also in their life? You cannot give them everything all at once and then not seeing what type of person they are. Right, I think you just have to take it slow and really see where people's priorities are. I think because everything is so fast paced, everything is so quick. You know you have Instagram, you have TikTok, everything is social media is just exposing so many things. You know, I think people move too fast in relationships. Take it slow, take it slow. That doesn't mean that you can't hit it off with people. There are some people you do hit it off with and you see automatically they're a great person and all of that.

Speaker 2: 51:20

But I still think it's discernment and trusting your gut. You and your gut knows what feels right and what feels wrong. The problem is we don't listen to it. We don't listen to the person inside. And if you have not been able to listen to that person, figuring out ways to learn how to listen to that voice, right, because we know that if people experience certain things in their life trauma, whatever it may be there may be a little off in their assessment of people. But you know, that's what therapy is for, that is what spiritual, you know, connection is for. All of those things will teach you it. But discernment to me is the key factor and I would say that, continuously, people have to earn your friendship. You donment to me is the key factor and I will say that continuously, people have to earn your friendship. You don't just give it away for free.

Speaker 1: 52:12

I agree, and, as with anything, you earn it, you have to evaluate it where it is and checking on it constantly. We got this job and every couple of months they check to see how we're performing and they assess right, and I think that's the overarching thing that I'm getting from this. But we know when it's time for a breakup or to leave a friend behind, because there is frequent assessment and checking the health of the friendship and the relationship, and so we have a pulse of where this is and when we don't do that and then something just happens. I'm with Queen P. It's almost like we know what time it is. We don't need to have, you know, kumbaya over this. It is what it is right, it's with us. You know, ex, but audience, I don't want you to think that we are taking this lightly.

Speaker 1: 53:22

Longest relationships in life, right, even outside your spouse, right, you have these relationships and these relationships can be just as emotional, even more, than a spouse, right, because this is pure emotion. There's no physical, nothing. It's. There's an emotional bond and connection, and some people may not want that level of bondedness and connection, and and and. Some people may not want that level of bondedness and connection, and and and some people might not even realize it's that to that level and take it seriously. But we all have to do our part, especially as we get older. You know making friends as adult different, you know, you know it's so and adjusting friendships as adults is different. Right, we left high school, but high school still. I go on. So you know a lot of these things are harder because no one has a conversation about this. We were never told. We assume that everything's going to be good, all right.

Speaker 1: 54:20

So I really enjoy having Queen P and Queen H on the podcast to talk about this aspect of friendship how to have these difficult conversation. If you choose not to have these difficult conversation, that's up to you. We can't force you and tell you what to have. There are some best practices, but you're making a decision based on who the other person is and you are developing your discernment, your intuition, and that will take time. And so start listening to the voice. The voice I said me did nuwe, no, me did nuwe. Is that voice? Queen Pia, queen H talking about that me did nuwe voice?

Speaker 1: 55:01

And so, as we wrap up, I want you to go listen to the Queen of Social Work podcast. You don't have to be a social worker to listen to the podcast. I think that the topics are great topics for you. To listen to them over on Instagram too. You know you're still not going to see them fierce, but they're over there, right, the Queens of Social Work podcast, and this is the boundary that they've created. And even though you don't see their faces, the personalities that you're getting are who they truly are when the camera's off and the mic turn off and everything, and I think that is a valuable aspect in a world where everybody does a put them business on Broad Street. So any final words before we lock off the party Queen P and Queen H.

Speaker 3: 55:47

This was so great. I had such a great time with our friends over here at Carry On Friends. Thank you for inviting us.

Speaker 2: 55:55

You're welcome. Yes, yes, no, this is a good time and thank you for having us on here. Thank you for all that you do. You're awesome and please'all listen, listen to this podcast, listen to us and support the ting. No, yeah.

Speaker 1: 56:15

Yes, All right, and so until next time. As I love to say at the end of every episode walk good.