Speaker 1: 0:03

Hello everyone, welcome back to another episode of Carry On Friends, the Caribbean American experience, and I am excited to have Jamila on the podcast today. Jamila, welcome, how are you feeling? I'm doing amazing. Thanks, wonderful. So before we get started, why don't you tell our community of friends a little bit about who you are, caribbean country you represent and the work you do?

Speaker 2: 0:27

I'm Jamila Soufrant and I was born on the beautiful island of Jamaica, raised in Brooklyn, new York, so I immigrated here when I was pretty young, under a year old, and so I guess I'll just start with what I do and then we can kind of, I guess, take it back and explore more. I have a platform, a podcast and a book that talks about achieving financial independence, that journey to becoming financially free and using money as a tool to live your life, your best life, whatever that looks like, and so my podcast is called Journey to Launch and the name of my book is called your Journey to Financial Freedom. And it really all started when I was on a long commute, commuting from Brooklyn to New Jersey for those of you who know kind of the New York, new Jersey world and it was a very long commute and I was in my early thirties, starting to have my first child. So I was pregnant and I was like I cannot do this. I cannot do this hour and a half commute when I have now children and being stuck in this cubicle.

Speaker 2: 1:31

I just didn't want that life, and so that prompted me to search up things like how to equip my job, how do I retire early.

Speaker 2: 1:39

I wanted to find a way out because I just knew they had to be a better life out there for me, other than this life in the car and in the cubicle doing work I didn't love. And that's where I stumbled upon the concept of financial independence the FIRE movement so that stands for Financial Independence, retire Early where people were retiring early, quitting their jobs, just saving and investing aggressively so that they had more control over their time. And that led me down a whole rabbit hole of listening, learning about my finances, applying what I was learning while I was working still and on the side, started my podcast Journey to Launch, to explore the journey to financial independence, what it would look like for someone like me. And then, after a few years, or a couple of years actually, things started to take, take off and I was able to quit my job a lot earlier than expected, still continuing to do the podcast. And then, most recently, my book came out where I'm chronicling the steps that anyone can take who wants to achieve more freedom in their life.

Speaker 1: 2:38

Wonderful. So when you first decided to take this step like what was that reaction from your very Jamaican family about Jamila you quit the good, good job way of no. I don't understand what's his like. What was that reaction and how much did that play a role, if any, in the journey which is already?

Speaker 2: 3:00

difficult, you know, thankfully for me. So I was raised by a single mom, my mom's Jamaican. She had me when she was pretty young, at 20 years old. So she got pregnant at 19, had me at 20. And there's like a whole story behind her getting her papers first and her having to leave me behind in Jamaica because she had this choice to make. I talk about this in the book and on my platform where her father, my grandfather who wasn't really in her life that much, but at least filed for her papers. But I wasn't a thought. So when he filed for her it was just her and he just came to the house where she was staying and said, hey, I got your papers, and then she had a baby in her hands and he was like wait, who's this? And I don't have anything for her. So you have to make a choice Are you going to stay here with this baby or are you going to take the opportunity and go abroad to New York? You have some cousins, I think he only gave her a few, like a week, to decide, or he's pulling that offer off the table, and so she decided, very bravely, to leave me behind.

Speaker 2: 4:07

So I'm saying all this to say that my mom at 20 came to the United States and we had family here and so that was very helpful in getting us situated, like most immigrants do when they come here. But it was really just me and her and they called me like her pocketbook because she took me everywhere and she's very mature and level-headed and ambitious for like being so young. And with that it's just her and me. And then I do have a little sister that was born years later but because of that, you know, I didn't have as much influence or people that could tell me what to do that would impact me as much as my mom. So even though I have aunts, uncles, my father wasn't really in my life but I had his side of the family. They were not the kind of people who could tell me like don't quit your job or don't do that. They didn't have that type of influence and by the time I did that I was in my thirties, my mid thirties, and I kind of had this proven track record of being successful. I had bought a couple of properties by then. I was doing well financially.

Speaker 2: 5:02

So I think by then my family trusted me and just was like all right, I know Jamila does things out the box, but I believe that whatever she's doing probably is going to work because of who she is. So the only person's opinion that would have mattered to me at that time would have been my husband, cause I was married Like I was grown grown by then. You know, like I had. I was married, I was grown grown by.

Speaker 2: 5:24

Then I was married, I was pregnant with my third child by the time I made the decision to quit my job, and then my mom, ultimately, and her bravery, her belief in me, really allowed me to become who I am today. So I don't know that trust. She never questioned it Like wait, what are you doing? This is a bad mistake that you're making. She just always trusted in me to make the best decisions for myself, and so, because of that, I had a lot of confidence in the choices that I was making and, of course, I made sure I didn't just quit without a plan. So I did have some things in place that, if things didn't work out on this journey I was taking, that I can go back and get a regular job.

Speaker 1: 6:06

I love that you say that, because this idea of financial independence is always something that is appealing and, given the state of the world, that we're in the economy and everything, and so what's too late to be financially independent, is there such a thing in your?

Speaker 2: 6:21

opinion. So I think it's really important to define financial independence because I know people can talk about it in different ways and even financial freedom. So the way I talk about it, when I'm talking about financial independence, I'm talking about complete financial independence from having to work or being dependent on anyone else but your own assets. So eventually you're in this place where you can live off of your assets, whether that's your investment portfolio, retirement portfolio, maybe passive income but you really don't have to work. You're independent. You don't need a job or man or person. You literally can do it and live on your own. So that's a very ambitious goal for a lot of people, right? Imagine like that's like standard retirement when we're thinking about it, like your social security and your retirement account paying for your life, but we're trying to accomplish this a lot earlier than that standard age. So that is what I'm referring to in the FIRE movement that financial independence, retire early movement. Because I was so attracted to this idea of exiting the workforce, the traditional workforce early, and not that I didn't want to work, I just wanted to choose what I wanted to do for work and not have to be so beholden to a paycheck. So with that, that very ambitious goal of financial independence for some people feels too big of a goal or impossible, which I totally understand. And then there's this concept of financial freedom, which to me means like the ability to make choices. So maybe you don't necessarily have to never work again like you still need to work, but you can choose how you work. Maybe you're working your way out of debt and that provides you a bit more freedom. So my belief is that you can achieve financial freedom along your path to complete financial independence.

Speaker 2: 8:02

To get back to your question about if it's too late, I think it depends. I never think it's too late for anyone to make positive changes in their finances because everything is relative. So with this concept of financial independence, you typically will want to decide or figure out what your number is, how much you'll need to have in an investment portfolio or in income to pay for your expenses, and so you do. A calculation is typically 25 times your annual expenses, so that number can be big depending on how you spend and depending on your starting point. So if you're like in your twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, listening to this, you might be like, well, I don't have anything saved and I just calculated I need 2 million, and so that feels impossible.

Speaker 2: 8:47

But I would say that I think this is a journey anyone can take, no matter when they start, because what's going to happen as you really begin to learn the principles and get control of your finances, you will make more progress than you thought you could. And let's just say you calculated that you needed like 1 million to be able to be financially independent, and you wanted to accomplish that in 15 years, and you tried with all your might, and after 15 years you only had 300,000 after investing and saving. To me that's still a win, because that's better than the zero you would have had if you would not have started. And so I don't think it's ever too late. I think you have to be part realistic but then part very ambitious and have that pie in the sky goal, because with that it allows you to dream bigger and to do more than you think you could.

Speaker 1: 9:35

So where are you in your financial freedom, like, how long did it take you to get here? And you know. The next question is once you're financially free, what's the next goal you set for yourself, for you personally?

Speaker 2: 9:47

What is this magic thing that these people are talking about? I don't know. Is this possible? And the way I broke it down into my framework and in my world is there are five levels that you travel on to receive or to achieve complete financial independence, and I have them in stages. It kind of goes along with the theme of launching to financial freedom. And so the first stage is what I call the explorer stage. That's where you are figuring out how to just live and pay for your living expenses. You want to get on track. There are some people who literally, when they do all the payments and expenses, they're in the negative. They have to put things on credit cards to live. So stage one is getting to a place where you can at least pay for your expenses and get stable. So that's what your goal is there.

Speaker 2: 10:41

Level two, or stage two, is what I call the cadet stage. That's getting out of consumer debt. So that is getting out of credit card debt, car loans or any other debt you want to get out of. I don't typically include student loans or mortgages there, because the balance can be big and you can typically manage that. But getting out of consumer debt in that cadet stage is level two. So once you're out of consumer debt, you can move on to what I call level three, stage three, which is the aviator stage. That's where you can focus now on investing and saving aggressively. And how you do that. If you want to be super aggressive, it's up to you, depending on where you are in life. But that's where you don't have debt that you're focusing on as much. But you can now divert things into your investment and savings account.

Speaker 2: 11:24

The fourth stage is called the commander stage. That's where you become work flexible. So it's not that you never have to work again, but because you are out of debt, you're saving, invested, you can make choices about where you work and how much you work and you have more flexibility. So you're work flexible. And then the ultimate stage, stage five, is that captain stage is where you're completely financially independent. You don't ever have to work if you don't want to.

Speaker 2: 11:48

So I found that breaking it down in those stages makes it really easy for people to see where they are on that journey. And I'm currently in the work flexible stage. So it's not that I'm completely financially independent. I could be if we chose to live differently and lowered our expenses by a lot, but we're not willing to do that as a family of five living in New York City, and so it's just for me. I'm in stage four, but I talk about in my book your Journey to Financial Freedom and in my work kind of if you find yourself well, you'll find yourself most likely in one of these stages, figuring out like how long it will take you to get out of each stage, and that's going to be dependent on a lot of factors.

Speaker 1: 12:28

I really love that you broke it down that way, because one, it don't feel like you're trying to take a big bite out of Mount Everest, right, but also it's relatable, right. So we're not looking at you, jamila, as this person who's already at the top of the mountain. You're like, nah, I'm still working my way there and in a way that's relatable, because people want to get to the top of the mountain, but it's like this idea of making their way through the levels can feel you're already saying that you're a failure, you're not ready yet. So I really liked that you did that. So all of this is covered in your book. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 13:07

Yes.

Speaker 1: 13:07

And let's talk about the book. When did you decide to write this book? What is the reception been? Tell me about it.

Speaker 2: 13:14

Well, it was a blog at first in 2016. And then the podcast, the first episode I launched in 2017. And I released an episode every week since the start of the podcast for years, and that was my main form of connecting with my audience, building my audience. I dubbed my audience, or my people that follow me or who are on this journey with me, journeyers, and it was one of the reasons why I was able to quit my job, because the podcast was taking off and the business itself was not earning a lot of money when I quit my job. But I saw the potential and I saw other people who were in the financial space making money, being entrepreneurs whether they were writing articles or selling courses or coaching and so I said, if they can do that, like I can figure out a way to do that with my platform that was growing, or brand partnerships. That was another way that I saw people making money. So I did quit my job in 2018, after I gave birth to my third child and pursued this entrepreneurship thing that I'm doing now, and I always knew I wanted to write a book.

Speaker 2: 14:18

I was always into writing as a child. I knew that adding a different vertical of media apart from the podcast would be important because there's so, as you know, carrie-anne, there's so many people who don't know how to access a podcast or listen to podcasts. They're like what, what's a podcast? And so a book is a really easy way not easy, but it's a very, it's just a legacy platform that people know. Like if you write a book and I always knew I wanted to go with a publisher, I didn't want to self-publish because I knew that would offer me better distribution and just better, you know, just like that name behind me would be helpful. And so I was approached, actually, about writing a book, a couple of times and I wasn't ready yet, or the deal just didn't seem right and I wanted to go about it where I could get the best deal for myself. And I just remember it just felt right when I was approached, like the last time I was approached, and then I thought, you know what, let me go through the proper steps, let me research, like how to get a great agent, how to write a great book proposal, what's the best method. And I did all that and found this pathway where I got my book deal, which, for a first time author, I was told was like very, you know, amazing, and so I got the book deal back in. I think it was 2021 or two. Now the dates are like I need to like check that off, but the book came out last year, december 5th 2023. And so it's been almost.

Speaker 2: 15:43

I don't know when this will air, but you know it's almost a year since it's been published and the reception's been good. You know, I think it's so funny. I knew this before writing a book. But books are actually very hard to sell. They're like not a high price point, but you, you know, I think there's a statistic that most books don't sell, even the traditionally published ones. I think the average book sells like a thousand copies. It's not as much as you would think for the low price point, but I feel like it's been doing really well. Of course, it can sell more, so I'm hoping anyone listening to this feels encouraged and motivated to check it out. But I love having this now that I can say to someone okay, you have questions? You really want to understand what I'm talking about? Check the book out, because it lays it out from front to back, a detailed way in which you can chart your own path to financial independence.

Speaker 1: 16:35

Yes, it makes sense, right? So all the questions you get, you're like, here's the book. It know it captures everything you know. Just use the book and not as a way to dismiss people. But it's like, once you know the questions that I'm sure you're getting asked, you've outlined them in the book as well to make it easier for people to kind of get the answers. But also it frees you up to do the other thing. Going back to that freedom aspect of what you're doing, like how do I help other people more hands-on if that's something that you do? So that is amazing. So let's switch gears a little bit.

Speaker 1: 17:08

So you came here when you were one and you know, tell me a little bit about your connection to your Jamaican culture. You know, as you were telling your story, a lot of it resonated with me. My grandfather filed for my mom and the only difference was when she went to the embassy, they asked her if she had kids and she's like yes, and they said you got to put them on there. And so that's how all of us ended up in Brooklyn, you know, on an August day. But you know this idea of figuring things out and finding your way and my brother was two at the time when he moved here. So you know, I'm curious what has been your relationship to culture? How did you remain connected? I'm sure your mom has a relationship, but for you, what was that like, given that you left Jamaica at a younger age?

Speaker 2: 17:58

So talk to me about that like given that you left Jamaica at a younger age. So talk to me about that. You know I was very blessed with my family. In terms of so my mom's side of families they're not large like as my father's side, but what was very helpful was that, even though my father wasn't actively in my life, his side of the family embraced me with open arms, and my mom was.

Speaker 2: 18:18

I don't know cause, I don't know if I would do this, but she was gracious enough to allow me to still, like, have that deep connection with them and send me to Jamaica, Like. So when I went to Jamaica, she would send me there for a number of reasons. So, just financially, it was cheaper to send me to Jamaica with some money versus putting me in camp and then I could be with my family, and so there was that reason. But then it was also she did like she I don't know she's just amazing because she wanted me to have a connection with my father's side of the family, Like, even though things didn't work out between her and my father and he wasn't active the way he should have been. It's like she just was very mature about everything. And so my father's side of the family was amazing because I would like split the summer up with my mother's side of the family in Montego Bay and St James and then I would like spend the time then with my father's side Let me see if I get this right In Falmouth.

Speaker 1: 19:08

Falmouth yes, and you know you're. I mean, I'm like I'm trying to find words because I am from Montego Bay. I grew up there, went to high school and everything, so this is very interesting.

Speaker 2: 19:20

Yeah. So I remember I was born in Montego Bay Hospital, but my mother's side of the family were like in Irwin I believe that's the area and then my father's side was just a little bit further in Falmouth, like over there?

Speaker 1: 19:33

Yeah, falmouth, it's in Chilani, but it's further the other way, right?

Speaker 2: 19:40

Like I guess they built a big port now where there's cruise ships, and so I would be sent there for like almost every summer, I believe, and up until a certain point. So I got to know my father's side of the family really well and all my siblings. So my father, he's a Rossifarian, he had a lot of kids and, luckily for them, everyone was like close and so I was like the sister that lived afar in and I'd come down. They would accept me and love me. We were young, you know like six, seven, eight, and they were all kind of like the same age, and so I developed really deep bonds with, like my father's mom and dad, all my aunts on that side, my cousins, and then I just have very fond memories of being able to go to Jamaica and I was traveling by myself, like I was an unaccompanied minor. So I remember having that experience and so that was how I like developed the deep connection with Jamaica and my siblings, which was very important, because maybe we'll get to it later.

Speaker 2: 20:31

But what's happened now is a lot of the older people where you know my grandmother and grandfather. They passed away on my mother's side of the family, like the older people I used to stay with. You know they have since passed and so now my connection to Jamaica are my siblings that I have this deep connection with, and so this past summer I was able to go down with my husband and my three kids and my other sisters who are kind of spread out in Canada, and we all went to my one sister in Kingston and stayed with her, and so that was the first time my kids all of them got to be in Jamaica and we experienced the tourist side. But then we stayed with my sister and got the real Jamaica and investment in terms of my mom being able to trust, to send me down by myself and to just know that I'd be OK. But like everything did turn out OK.

Speaker 1: 21:26

I love it. I just find it fascinating, as an aside, that anytime I hear somebody come from Moby, I'm like, ah, because you know, growing up, everybody always come from where Kingston. No one comes from anywhere else. So you know, this is what I love about doing Carry On Friends, like the immigration stories of everyone, finding the connectivity there and hearing the different stories. One story that this novel that came out, how to Save Babylon oh, I'm reading that now Okay, okay, great.

Speaker 2: 21:57

I'm reading that now I'm going to be on a panel again. I don't know when this comes out, but I was asked to be a guest at the well-read black girl festival and she's also going to be there, which was and like she's also from Montego Bay.

Speaker 2: 22:09

Yeah, similar community that I grew up Right and because of the roster, so Rastafarian upbringing I resonate with that a lot, even though I wasn't raised in that, but a lot of my siblings were, and so there's a lot there that it's just really interesting that I'm just excited about pursuing and learning more about.

Speaker 1: 22:29

So talk to me about, specifically, the relationship with your father and your siblings and him being a Rastafarian and you live afar and you go there Like what was that culture experience? Because that is very different. So tell me a little bit about that and I guess going your relationship with your father even though I guess you stayed with your grandparents but like what was that relationship like?

Speaker 2: 22:53

So he wasn't active in my life. I knew him, he knew of me but like when I went to Jamaica, you know he if he was around he would try to like maybe see me. But he also had a lot of other kids that lived in Jamaica that he was also trying to be there for. But I think his position in the community, so apparently he was very prominent in the Rastafarian community, the Rastafarian community, and his name was Issa J Jr Manning and he was all he's just all over the place, like in terms of trying to actually lead a lot of initiatives. From what I'm learning now I'm trying to dive actually deeper into his story to learn more about him and his work. But there's so much that my mom says I'm like him in a lot of ways. He was on the radio, he wrote books. Lot of ways. He was on the radio, he wrote books, he spoke a lot and was a pillar in that community. So a lot of that she says she feels like I get from him and so it's interesting because I just realized early on that and I just made this connection because there were a couple of men in my life this way and it's not to absolve them of responsibility, but they seem to have had great relationships with the community and everyone else. Like if you spoke to them they'd be like, oh my gosh, they were like such great men in the community and it is so much and I'm like, but why weren't they like that with their own children? Like I don't understand.

Speaker 2: 24:10

And so, you know, I just always took it as even though I felt like I always deserved like a father figure and someone like that in my life that maybe, like his, his mission or what he needed to do was different and bigger, not than me, but just for his community, whatever that was.

Speaker 2: 24:24

And so I I don't know, I didn't grow up with a grudge against him because I was happy that I at least knew my father's side of the family and they really accepted me with open arms. You know I like my siblings, like my siblings are all amazing and you know that was really helpful to like come to terms with like that missing connection. And he's since passed away and so with that, you know, being able to connect and have that connection still with my siblings is a big deal. But just with Jamaica itself, I just feel like if it weren't for going all those summers back and having you know, being able to, I know if I go to Kingston or if I go to Jamaica, you know, and I used to go by myself when I got a little bit older to see my sister and it was just us and to know that I have that connection just feels really, really important. And so it's like now I'm just like I have to be able to keep that up and hopefully my children with their cousins create that bond too.

Speaker 1: 25:18

Yeah, sorry to hear about your dad's passing. There was something else as you were talking about. You know him having that relationship with the community and everyone looking up to him and you're like, but what about me? I'm your daughter. That felt literally like a line out of the novel Hurricane Summer where.

Speaker 1: 25:38

Asha. She's from Canada. Her father's in Jamaica. He's a Rasta, but he's like he has a whole farm, he's feeding the community and she's like but we're your kids and we barely see you and you don't come back to Canada Like that's another book that I feel like you could.

Speaker 2: 25:57

I'm going to desk, I wrote it down, I'm going to check that out because, and you know, part of me also felt like his children that lived in Jamaica, you know, didn't always also get his attention and I lived all the.

Speaker 2: 26:08

So I'm just like, and I was the second oldest you know there's a lot of us, but I was the second oldest and I felt like, you know, thank goodness I was, you know, I had a privilege of being able to grow up in America and so I just felt like if he had any time and attention and love to give, like I'd rather him have given that to my siblings, because, again, I'm not saying I didn't need a father in my life, but my mom was such a force that, like like it was enough for me.

Speaker 2: 26:34

If anything, I'm just like all right if you had to choose or you couldn't spread it so thin, like give it to them because, like, literally, you're in Jamaica with them. But yeah, that was really just like important for me to, which is why I want to learn more about, like his life and what he was able to do, because I do feel like that's an experience for a lot of women and even boys, you know, growing up. But I just feel like as, whether it's Caribbean or Jamaican, like there's that stereotype of, you know, the father's not being as hands-on or around, and again, I know it's a stereotype and there are a lot of great Jamaican fathers out there, but it was just my experience that it just felt like, hmm, like I want to explore that more.

Speaker 1: 27:14

Yeah, absolutely, and I think you know, even when you have somewhat of a relationship. When my father passed away two years ago, I remember feeling like I am an adult in my 40s and I'm going through these motions because my dad passed away. And you know, like that connection, you share that DNA there's always something you want more. Why did we drift away a little bit as I got older and had more kids? You know a lot of things and so I think that this journey feels natural and it's also a discovery of part of yourself, like you know you as a parent. You know like you see your kids running around and you're like, yeah, they got that from me. I'm not even going to say anything. Like they got that from me.

Speaker 1: 28:02

Like when the husband look at you and be like, are you that? And you'll be like I know. Right, you kind of want to know who's this other person that contributed so much to who I am or I'm not. You know it's, it's part of that discovery. That's like you, you're more aware of your sense of self and I remember that very clearly. When my father left, like who am I now that he's not here, because for so long I was his girl, you know and what happens.

Speaker 1: 28:34

you know, like there was just a lot. So I absolutely feel the need to dive deeper there and learn more, and I'm excited to find out what you discover or uncover in the process.

Speaker 2: 28:46

Yeah, yeah, I want to take this project on.

Speaker 2: 28:48

I know what it's going to uncover, but like I'm excited about it and one of the interesting things, I just always remember this because my birthday is February 6th, which is the same as Bob Marley's birthday, which, you know, for us Safarians and just Jamaica as a whole, like no, everyone knows that February 6th.

Speaker 2: 29:02

So I just used to remember as a child, like there's no way, like how could he forget? Like his daughter is born on February 6th, like why doesn't he at least call me on my birthday? And so there's a lot of that which I find so intriguing and interesting, because as a parent now, as someone who chose you know what I think is a great husband and father, I'm just like I don't understand, like how you could be that way but then be who you were in the community, and so that's that kind of stuff. Like you said, I think it's going to be a discovery of deeper into, maybe, like my history, and then you know, hopefully, maybe, of who I am now right, the decisions I make and why I make them, and all those things.

Speaker 1: 29:39

Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for you on that one. I really am All right. So let's talk about this thing that you're doing in a by the time. This is going to come up before the time it happens, and so you are doing the Reagan marathon, and so tell me why you decide to do this. I mean, I love running, but let me tell you a story. The other day, like right now, I'm in physical therapy because in my mind, I'm still fast and I was going hard running and my body was like my girl breaks yourself and so my knee is a little off because I didn't stretch as much as I used to. Because in my mind I'm like I did my regular stretch, I'm good, and the PT was like you need to stretch longer than you normally would. So tell me what inspired you to do this. I know deciding to run a marathon is like it's huge, so walk me through your decision to do this at this point in your life.

Speaker 2: 30:36

Okay, so I've always been active. I used to do gymnastics as a, you know, in my teenage years my young girl years and teenage years and like I did CrossFit, I did like all the things I was into moving my body. And then when I had kids, like things changed, my body changed and so I was just like not as active. And I remember, with the pandemic hit you know all the gyms. I was going to the gym before the pandemic but the pandemic hit and I was like wow, like I want to stay active. And so I picked up walking. And my husband, he was, he's very fit and active, so he used to run and I was like I'm not running, like I always thought, like I hate, like what is the point? This looks very miserable, why would I run? And so he was running, it could go to the park during COVID and I started to kind of like do like run one lap and then run like you know, one fourth of a mile, like very slow and hated it. And then one day I decided to like push myself and do a mile. And the problem with me is, once I do something which is why I don't like necessarily doing things I know how to do. It's like I can't go back, like now I know I know how to do this. It can't be a conscious choice not to do a little bit more. And so I eventually worked my way up to running three miles, which was a lot for me. Up until last year, three miles was my limit. Once I heard the thing say three miles, I stopped. I was like, good, I'm done, never again. But then I'll do it again, because I did like the feeling afterwards and it's just very effective in terms of working out.

Speaker 2: 32:03

And I remember the opportunity with the reggae marathon came up and I wanted to do this a couple of years ago but it just never worked out. And this year, finally, it happened, where it just the stars aligned and I'm able to go. And so I was so excited because I'm like, okay, and they have different levels. I think they have the half marathon, then they have, I think, the 10K and 5K. And so I have a friend who also started running during the pandemic and she's trying to run further. Like she's like I want to do a marathon. I'm like I'm not training for a marathon, I'm just doing my three miles.

Speaker 2: 32:35

And I remember when this opportunity came I was like, hmm, this sounds really I don't know. This sounds like something I need to do because, one, the timing of it was going to be the year anniversary of my book coming out. Like, literally, it's like the year to the date, almost, that the book comes out, that I'm running this marathon. It's in my home Island of Jamaica and I can work my way up to pushing myself, setting this goal of running the full half marathon, which is 13 miles. And so once I felt like I'm one of those people where I do see opportunity and blessings and I try to see them in a lot of things, and I just thought this is here for a reason, this opportunity is here at this exact moment for a reason. Let me do this.

Speaker 2: 33:15

And so me signing up is stretching me me because, again, I'm usually like, not someone who would like want to run longer miles or distances, but I'm really excited about this because of all that it represents, like the year anniversary of the book release, pushing myself in this way. I'm in my early forties, so you know, I'm not like my my bones. I'm like listening to you talking about stretching. I'm like Jamila, you better stretch a bit more Cause you don't be shortcutting it, but I'm excited just because it just feels very, uh, important. And me now, with this discovery of me wanting to learn more about my father, like it all feels like a homecoming of sorts and a journey deeper into my life. Like it just it just feels very big and so that I should do this and that's what I'm doing.

Speaker 1: 34:00

Wonderful. I mean, one day I will stretch myself, but once the knee fix, because when I tell you like I can't even go up steps, you know, and I knew that I was overdoing it, but in my mind I was like I could do this. But what I love about your story is this idea that it's really never too late. Right, because you talk about the financial freedom. Here we are doing a marathon, right? You said you're in your early 40s. If you really want to try something, commit to something, push yourself. It's never really too late. The pushing of yourself is really you, a contract between you and yourself and not anyone else. Right, and really making adjustments. Right, and I think that's what I had to learn through this whole injury thing. You are pushing yourself and that's great.

Speaker 2: 34:55

But pushing yourself also means knowing when you can't push that far Right and dialing it back a little bit it truly is an individual journey and it's great to have like champions and cheerleaders in a group to help you like whether that's a running group or friend, just like in your finances, like someone you can talk to about stuff in a community, but really it's you and everyone's situation is different, like everyone's body is different, everyone's time commitments, what they can do is different, your age, all these things are going to be different. About how you can apply yourself to running or even your finances, like your starting point, how much you make, your expenses, the stage of life you're in I know pre-kids my finances and my goals look different than they do now. Someone who's single journey was as a single parent is going to look totally different than a two income household. Right, like there's so many things that we can't compare what we're going through to other people. We can have best practices and things that can be helpful, but just like running, every time I'm running it's like it's really, it's a running meditation. It's me against myself, Like do you want to stop, like this feels hard. And same thing whether it's business, going to school, finances. You're going to come across all this mindset and habit work that you have to do, which is a big part of achieving any goal. Yes, your body has to play along and agree, right, like your body can't do it, just like your finances, like you know, it's but so much if you can do, if you're not earning enough money.

Speaker 2: 36:37

But there is all this inner work that happens on any journey you take.

Speaker 2: 36:41

That, to me, is the most important, because I do think it's a transferable skill, like set, that you can take and apply it to anything, and so I just think this journey that I'm on, in different aspects that we're all on, is so important and no matter the age or like your circumstances. You know, even with the running, like my goal is not to run really that much faster, I just want to make sure that I can like finish it and like do it in a time that feels good, just like your finances, like, yeah, be great to not have to work in two years, but that might not be realistic. So what does it look like to have an enjoyable journey, just like? What does it look like to have an enjoyable run and not look at the next person who's going like six minutes per mile right or achieving and paying off their debt quicker than you are? What works for you and what are you willing to put into it to get it done? Sacrifice to get it done or not sacrifice because you're like not doing it today.

Speaker 1: 37:35

So I love that you've put that together because, as someone who loves to run, it makes a lot of sense, because I got this injury because I was comparing to my younger self that ran a certain mile by a certain time and I was trying to make that and I had to now do that self-talk and say, okay, now you have to, you know, rethink this. You know, maybe you could have gone really low on them squats. You can't go all the way that low, you know. But again, it's the mindset, is a talk track in your mind and interrupting some of that talk track to meet the goals. So I'm waiting to see all the pictures of you running. I'm waiting to see all the pictures of you running. I'm excited for you and this journey because, again, it's all about.

Speaker 1: 38:27

I think what I'm getting from you is that we have families and we have spouses and kids, but there's this element of you that you have to make sure is healthy for all those people, whether it's mentally, physically or financially to be present and enjoy the people that you're with. And so that's one of my big takeaways from this right, because even with your family, your sisters, right, you still need to be in a place where family of five flying to Jamaica is not cheap. So you need to be in a place. You understand what I'm saying and so I just love this story and congratulations on the book, and I'll make sure I tell people that listen. If you want to do this, I probably need to share it with my nephew because I've been trying to tell him. To save your money, I might tell him is it available in audio book, because I listen to audio books.

Speaker 2: 39:17

So it is available everywhere Audiobook, everywhere books are sold. So if you go on Amazon, you go to it's in airports it's in Barnes Noble. So my website to get the book or to check it out and see where you can buy it yourjourneytofinancialfreedomcom. That's the book website. It will show all the links to go to Amazon Barnes Noble Target. It's all there. And then you can also get it from your local bookstores. Support your local bookstores. And my podcast Journey to Launch you can find on Apple Podcasts and all those places.

Speaker 1: 39:50

Wonderful Jamila, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I loved your story and I know the listeners will enjoy it as well. And any last words before we say goodbye?

Speaker 2: 40:01

Thank you for having me on the show. I feel like you know so many years now I've been talking about. Well, when I get interviewed by other people, it's usually about finances, which is fine. You know that's my niche. But I think it's really nice now to like start talking about something like a little bit different and like this other side that I'm looking at, or this creative side, or pursuing now like deeper into my roots. So thank you for the opportunity to kind of explore that more and talk some of this through. But I really do want to encourage anyone listening that it sounds very cliche and corny, but literally this is everything. You're on the journey, whether you know it or not, because the time is going to pass anyway, god willing that we're here 10, 15, 20 years from now. And so I know that when it comes to finances, even health, that if you're starting from a place where you don't feel like getting to your goal feels very hard and far away, that it sometimes feels, oh, it's better just not to start or to ignore it, and I understand that. But I think you know little steps.

Speaker 2: 41:02

Being honest with yourself about what you can tolerate, what you're not willing to tolerate, is important to creating action and, you know, understanding why maybe there's no movement or you feel that you can't do something is important, like working on that.

Speaker 2: 41:15

That inner work is, to me, more important than the external work that we want to do. The inner work allows us to do the external work, and so that's not always easy, but that you know. I do believe that many people, if we're talking about finances, can move through those stages that I talked about earlier, like get to a better stage and be happier with their life. And you don't have to have a million dollars, you don't have to be out of debt completely, but you can move through the stages at your own pace and have a better life. And then the same thing on the whether it's health or fitness side that I do feel like finding things that you're happy about, not always related to money or that challenge. You are important so that you can enjoy this path, this life that we live in. So don't be afraid to start and take small steps.

Speaker 1: 41:59

That is beautiful and on that note, as I love to say at the end of every episode walk good.