Speaker 1: 1:04

Hello everyone, welcome to this special joint episode. All of the joint episodes are special, but anyway, a joint episode of Carry On Friends and Reels and Rhythms and as always, I have my co-host with the most style to the vibes, michaela Wagwan.

Speaker 2: 1:19

Wagwan, wagwan.

Speaker 1: 1:21

All right, and we are well-excited. Well-excited because we have Tristan Barraacks and we have Donisha Pendergast and we want to welcome them to the show with the most excitement. Run the sound effects, please.

Speaker 3: 1:38

Hey, make a piss up, make a piss up. Hello, my name is Tristan Barracks. I am a director and writer, jamaican-canadian director and writer and just one of the creatives that are behind the amazing film called Sugar Dumplings, starring Oliver Samuels and Chantal Riley, and I'm going to toss it off to my amazing co-producer and amazing artist and filmmaker, danisha. Go ahead, jump in.

Speaker 4: 2:13

All right. Well, go on people. I am Denisha Prendegast, born in Jamaica, grew up around the world and I'm continuing to evolve as an artist. I'm an actress, writer, director, producer, cultural curator, and will continue to respond. And so now I'm exec producing on Sugar Dumpling and we're really excited to be here to talk about it.

Speaker 3: 2:30

Yep, yep.

Speaker 1: 2:31

Wonderful, all right, so let's kick it off, right? I'm good, good, sitting on my desk and somebody said Kerry, look at boom, drop it a trailer. And it's the one Oliver Samuels and this Sugar Dumpling. So we're going to get to a lot of things, but, tristan, let's start. Before we get to Oliver, as I tell everybody, see what inspired you to create this project, what was the motivation, the story behind it.

Speaker 3: 2:59

It's kind of a confluence of different things, like I was born in Canada but I was raised Jamaican, and so two Jamaican parents that are proud to be Jamaican but also understand and went through an immigrant experience. And so growing up I always had an issue with seeing how my culture, my people, was represented right, you know there was, whether it was through cool runnings or any other sort of iterations of Jamaican culture. It was always very monolithic in its presentations. And so for me, you know, some of my fondest memories was growing up watching Oliver and watching also Desmond, which is more of a Trinidadian show from the UK. But one of the things that stood out to me was that it wasn't just inspiring and enlightening to me of my culture, but my parents were really deeply connected and deeply rooted in kind of reliving their childhood through the guise of Oliver, Samuels and other performers like that.

Speaker 3: 3:58

And so growing up, being a performer myself, growing up and being a storyteller, coming from a Jamaican home, it was sort of a natural progression to want to tell a story that was from my heritage and I want to tell it in a way that could bridge the gap between those that are part of the diaspora, so those that were born of Jamaican parents but maybe born in another country but still raised Jamaican and know Jamaican culture, and that is how they identify, like myself.

Speaker 3: 4:27

But then also to those who are on the island, that were born in Jamaica, that want to see more than what they've seen. You know, hollywood put out as the representation of Jamaican culture and Jamaican storytelling, and I think the center of this whole idea and story was really around how can we bring humanity back to us as Jamaican people? Right, we're not just blunts, you know, bumba, whatever as well. There was this sort of deep desire to like how do we now show the many folds of what it means to be Jamaican, be human, and to kind of reclaim our story and export that to the world? So that's where it really came from.

Speaker 1: 5:21

Well, you said so many in there like you're just hitting on all the things that resonate with Michaela and I, but I'm gonna let Michaela ask a question if she wants to.

Speaker 3: 5:38

Yeah, I was actually curious how did you connect with Denisha and what is the connection there to, kind of co? It was so weird because we were we kind of were fond and respecting each other's crafts from afar, but we didn't really know each other like like deeply until recently probably in the last year I was at a screening and I saw Denisha and I said, hey, you know, my name is Tristan and you know I'm working on a film, and she's like no, I know who you are and like I, you know, I know some of the people that you you know, and and then we just like had a conversation maybe a couple of weeks after and we just hit it off. There was so much that we had in common and so much things that we were passionate about specifically around like reclaiming and redefining, you know, the, the, the storytelling aspect of things. But also one of the things that really stirred um, stirred things inside of me was just Denisha's passion for, like, the social impact part of it.

Speaker 3: 6:30

It's not good enough. Like, as creatives black creatives, we we have a responsibility not only to just create entertaining um work, but work that's going to have impact and lasting legacy, and so one of the things that I'm learning, you know, through just the guise of how she's leading the project, specifically within the social impact area of things, through Humanity Over Vanity, is just that idea of like we got to have more purpose behind this right, and not to say that we didn't. But the purpose has to be actually worked out and exhibited in practical ways, and so I'm super grateful to have her as a part of the project because she's just been bringing so much, so much needed life and so much needed intentionality to it. So I'll throw it over to her if she wants to add anything to that.

Speaker 1: 7:16

In adding to that. Donisha, maybe you can let's go back a little bit, because I realized we jumped in and didn't give quite give the audience a synopsis of what the project is and then from there you can tell me. You know the impact that you hope that this project has on humanity, so go ahead.

Speaker 4: 7:33

Sure, sugar Dumpling is a short film that seeks to propel a story insight into a relationship between a father and a daughter Father who is navigating a new space in his life, being recently diagnosed with dementia, and a daughter who is now navigating, having to, like Tristan says, love somebody who you don't really like at this moment Because of years of lost moments, misunderstanding distance.

Speaker 4: 8:07

You know, now we're at an age and all of us are at this age where our parents are aging and we're also realizing that our parents were also young people at some point, trying to figure it out along the way.

Speaker 4: 8:23

So we are also learning new lessons about grace on the go, um, and I think, like for for me, just kind of bringing it back now and talking about the impact outside of helping to exec, produce a film as an audience member and a community member, I am now so much more hyper aware of dementia, alzheimer's you know just the challenges of aging that my mother or my grandmother is dealing with in a different way and seeing that this is an experience that many people are having across the board but may not have tools to navigate the generational trauma that we're also seeking to heal as we grow. So, sugar Dumpling such an affectionate name really creates an opportunity for us to challenge stereotypes and platform stories from spaces that we would otherwise have called just a Black story, and now redefining it as a Jamaican-Canadian story, as a Jamaican story that lives in Canada, because, like Trishan has said to me before, even though he grew up in Canada, he grew up in a Jamaican household in Canada. Jamaica resides wherever Jamaicans are.

Speaker 3: 9:44

Please say that again, please say that again, please say that again. Thank you.

Speaker 4: 9:47

Jamaicans and Jamaican stories reside wherever Jamaicans are.

Speaker 1: 9:52

I love this because it's something that again, is so entrenched in Carry On Friends style and vibe reels and rhythms. Because when we say Caribbean, broadly right, it's wherever we occupy space and the experience that comes from that. But if I should put Caribbean automatically, they think geographically the region and not necessarily the spaces. Jamaican born and you know defining that me not really pay attention to that. If your mother, if your mother father Jamaican, you are Jamaican. And if you can't get a Jamaican passport, even if you're born here, you are Jamaican. I don't subscribe to, yeah, this and that and that.

Speaker 1: 10:38

To Danisha's point. That came out of my experience meeting my cousin the first time when I moved to Brooklyn 30 years ago. And you, you know she knows nothing else but Bully, Biva Rice and all the things that somebody in Jamaica growing up would know. So why would I say she's less Jamaican? Because she just born here. She knows nothing else but a Jamaican culture and I love that. You're saying that. We're realizing that. Yo, we're all one. So talk to me about that experience for you. I think you and Michaela share a similar experience. I believe Danisha and I born in Jamaica. So you, both of you can you know, particularly you, Tristan, talk about that experience being the Yankee Fire and Bond Pit and seeing the evolution of that. As you were saying, acceptance or bridging of a gap between, you know, those born in the country or the region versus those born here.

Speaker 3: 11:34

You know, I have to acknowledge right off the bat the extreme privilege I have that my parents sacrificed to give me, to leave everything that was common and was comfortable for them and made sense to them, to leave a warm climate, to leave all of their family members to literally swing to the fences for a dream that they couldn't even articulate, so that I can sit down here now and create, project those dreams on screen right. You know, the other day, my dad, who has a very heavy Jamaican accent, he was screen right. You know, the other day, my dad, who has a very heavy jamaican accent. You know, I just have to tell you I'm just so proud, I'm so proud of all my kids, I'm just so proud of how you guys just come. I couldn't even imagine I'm in spain right now. We're filming this, I've been sharing this and man, I just I just can't express and like for me, denisha's smiling because she knows that's exactly how my dad sounds, but for me that's the essence of what we're talking about.

Speaker 3: 12:30

Going back to the main point, growing up it was really weird for me because I grew up in my home. I was, you know, we spoke Patois, we ate bully beef, we did all the things. We also ate, obviously some Canadian food, and so I I felt comfortable there. But then when I would go outside of my home, I had to assimilate to a culture that that was not my own Right and that was that's a. That's a very familiar experience for many people that are, that are born elsewhere but that are raised Jamaican. And it wasn't until I got married really, and I have a, I have very Jamaican in laws and so the everything is just super Jamaican, right, I love it. And it wasn't until I got married to my wife and we went, I think, on a couple of different trips. We, the first trip, we went back together and we went to Jamaica and I remember waking up and looking outside and looking at like the rolling hills and seeing the smoke coming out of the chimneys and like feeling this deep desire to connect with an island that I never really got an opportunity to, to go back to and visit a lot. You know, my parents weren't well off. They had four kids. We didn't get to go to Jamaica. We went to Jamaica for funerals or if we were two years or younger. Ok, we all know, we all know the flex right, we all know, we all know the flex right. We all know it Like, let's not right, black child, no fear, exactly. And so for me, I have gone, started to go through.

Speaker 3: 13:55

When I started to go back to Jamaica, I had this deep desire to give of myself in some capacity. I didn't know how that was going to show up, but I knew that I had a passion for storytelling. I had a passion for this island that has given me so much identity that I could finally write like kind of right, because for a long time I felt like other right, I'd go to Jamaica. I was the foreign you know I was, I was a boy from fine oh, look at him with his clothes and thing you can't, you can't give me your shoes, like. You know what I mean. I was that guy Right. And then when I came here, it was like I'm that's not, you know what I mean Like. And so I was.

Speaker 3: 14:44

I was trapped.

Speaker 3: 14:45

I was kind of trapped in this middle and and in writing, you know, I wrote all the patois in in the film, I wrote all the scenes with the food, because I realized that I am Jamaican and this is a part of my culture and this is part of my experience and through that and seeing the just the response of those that read the script, like when I sent it to Denisha, I have a high level of respect for her because I feel like you know, there's a level of credibility that she has, but also she has a deep rooted passion to to see Jamaica thrive and Jamaican people thrive.

Speaker 3: 15:19

And so when I started to speak to her about the project and she really saw the vision, I was like, okay, maybe you have something here right, maybe we can make something, and I don't know. I kind of answered the question roundabout, but I think ultimately, what I'm trying to communicate to you is it was almost like a baptism of sorts in terms of embracing my identity as a Jamaican Canadian, not rejecting being born in Canada and the privileges that that brought, but also embracing and saying no, I am Jamaican, I'm just a different expression of Jamaican, but I'm still Jamaican. And I want to tell these stories with a level of authenticity and truth from my POV. So I hope that that answers the question a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 16:00

I think it's such a full circle moment, especially for me. Tristan and I have the same background. Both my parents are Jamaican, my husband is Jamaican and there are so many personal connections that I'm hearing in this story. My husband calls our youngest daughter, sugar Dumplin'. My grandmother passed away, bless her heart, passed away a while ago from Alzheimer's, and I am the in-between kid that speak Patois and people often ask me.

Speaker 2: 16:32

I'm like no, I wasn't born in Jamaica, but I did have the privilege of going back and forth and I think even recently I was expressing with my mom. I always ask her like well, when, when you and daddy divorced, why didn't you go back? Cause she had a lot of my family still live there, um, and she was just like well, I had already started building a community here and so many people were coming up from Jamaica during that time and you still had some family here. That's why, you know, I kind of uh, remained here, um, but there is this connection to jamaica that I always feel like. That feels like jamaica feels like home, unlike any other place. Like I, I get off the plate. I remember one time telling carrie I'm like you, remember when you used to just come off I play, I feel a breeze hit you and you have to walk onto the tarmac going and, like you, just feel so at ease, so relaxed, and even being able to turn on the TV and flip through every single channel and see people that look exactly like you. That is an experience, the most simple experience, that we as diaspora kids don't get to experience because we're relegated to one or two channels. So, from a media perspective, and being able to see the expansion of how much culture has come to the forefront, of films and media and spaces where we kind of coexist and being able to to kind of connect that bridge is so important.

Speaker 2: 18:11

Um, and especially, you know, raising my kids and they go back and forth and that sort of thing. Um, I, I think that this is such a great project. Um, it's telling a completely different story. It's definitely family driven and that's something that we haven't really seen. So you could have told this story without the dementia connection. Why was that important? To kind of sell? Because it's already sounds like a complicated relationship. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 18:37

Why? Why add in the dementia there?

Speaker 3: 18:41

There's two reasons for that. When you're writing a script, you you know you want to create a crucible. You want to create a situation where people can't escape from, your characters have to have to be in this place together to figure this thing out, um, or else the story's broken, right? Because if, at any point in time, a person or a character can make a choice to leave, then you really don't have a story or you don't have a problem that needs the characters to go through it and solve. So it becomes a transformative experience, right. And so I think a part of that was just functional storytelling, right, Finding something that would cause somebody to be in a place together and figure things out together. Somebody to be, to be in a place together and and figure things out together.

Speaker 3: 19:29

But I think there there also is a finite sort of reminder of of how, how limited our time is. And if you knew that that somebody that you loved passionately had a had a limited amount of time, um, to be on this earth, what would you say? What would you do? What would you do? What choices would you make? To mend, to change, to communicate to that person so that there was a level of meaningful relationship restoration. And so there was that level of like yo nothing's promised to you tomorrow. So what are you choosing to do today for there to be a level of meaning and purpose behind? You know the interactions that we have with our loved ones or our friends, right? So there was that functional storytelling part of it.

Speaker 3: 20:56

But then there's also that sort of idea of you know, do we have to wait until somebody's sick in order to value them? You know what I mean or do we live our lives with a level, a sense of urgency and value, and we value those moments together? So those are the two reasons why I kind of use dementia Cause again. Dementia is one of those things. It's grappling right. Alzheimer's is one of those diseases that really takes away one of our most cherished things, which is our memory, which is our ability to remember our loved ones. That's, you know, we're on. We're on kind of a joint podcast, but that's worse than Thanos snapping half of the Marvel cinematic universe, right, Like, like that. That's you losing who. You are right. How much more urgency would you need in order to to mend a relationship?

Speaker 1: 21:40

I'm gonna come to Danisha on this, but what I love about this is we're telling a story about a disease that affects everyone, right, but through the lens of being Jamaican. My grandmother, her sister, my aunt we shared a birthday early onset Alzheimer's, right now, you know I was the first grandchild, so you know my grandmother would complain to me about my mother Now my mother. They complain about my brother and I say you sound like grandma, all the things that grandma used to complain about you. You now complaining about my brothers, right, so I'm the middle person, but it gives me a lesson to say I have to be mindful. Self-aware, to the part, donisha St Grace on the go right, aware to the part, danisha St Grace on the go right.

Speaker 1: 22:31

And this idea of identity? Right, because Alzheimer's is losing the core essence of who these people are. They're a fraction of who you remember them to be. So, switching from identity, not from that medical sense, but from how we see ourselves on television, how culture is portrayed, or culture particularly. And you talked about reclaiming and redefining, danisha. So talk to me a little bit about your vision for what that looks for, starting with Sugar Dumpling, but, like, what is the role Michaela and I can play with the podcast. What is the role that other people can play collectively to redefine and reclaim our identity, and how we're being portrayed in media.

Speaker 4: 23:11

First of all, you're already doing it by being present and taking up space and taking yourselves a little bit more seriously. That's been my mantra for the past couple of years to friends, family, even strangers, like take yourself a little bit more seriously. We live one time, people don't care as much as you think they do, you just need to care as much as you think you do. And like, the universe is always at work. And so when the universe aligned, tristan and I, I was also in the process of creating an exhibit, an art exhibit for my grandmother called the Garden that Rita Grew my Grandma Rita. It's living in New York right now. It comes down in about two weeks.

Speaker 4: 23:59

But saying that to say I was in the process of understanding how important it is for the Black family to archive and what is lost when we don't, and what happens and what limits us from archiving properly.

Speaker 4: 24:15

Whether it is we travel, so we move home, so you can't carry everything in a suitcase, or some things have to go left, it's not as important as we think Throw out the old to bring in the new, all of these things.

Speaker 4: 24:29

And if it wasn't for my grandmother's brother, who is my grand uncle, like he was able to show me a drawing of my great great grandmother from the 1800s, a drawing and saying all that to say like sometimes as an activist, when I'm feeling low, I have to put myself around people who remember me, remember who I was before these moments, you know, because sometimes in the fight you lose, you lose yourself, you lose the confidence or you lose the vigor, you lose the perspective of how much has been done up until this moment, and so bringing it back to sugar dumpling. I think that that's one of the reasons why I embrace the project so much, because I understand how important it is for us to help our elders to remember who they were before these moments. You know, and this is a part of that work of empowering our communities to get back to our indigenous act of cultural preservation, which is storytelling storytelling.

Speaker 1: 25:40

Let me tell you, god sent you right here because Mikhail and I were going through prepping for our 2025 season and storytelling is a huge thing for me, right Like I look at the podcast, I look at the work that we're doing in terms of how are we canonizing our culture in this way and having big and serious conversation, the jokes them need to exist and all of the excitement, but where are the other conversations? And you touch a button when you say, like, when you're feeling low and you forget you know who you were or you accomplished it before. That is me and Michaela every two months. Really, you know, and so that's a form of Alzheimer's in a way. Right you are, you've lost yourself to the process that you don't remember who you are and you need a Michaela or you know the people in the film to remind you of who you are, and sometimes they may be frustrated like la Jesus every two months, me, afea, telarse every two months my friend tells her.

Speaker 3: 26:40

But it's the grace, that's part of the process. I'll say this it always reminds me of one of my favorite lines, cinema lines Simba, you must remember who you are. It's literally that, and sometimes you need that right, you need that moment.

Speaker 1: 26:53

Tristan sidebar, you just need to come to use our rhythms and just elaborate, should we, because are you name? Listen? The other day we went to a dinner and they asked Michaela to re, to re and at the part of belly um, she go in, she go straight character with teddy brook shot. Yes, yes, no, but I, I love it. I have some fun questions, but let's get to the big thing. So we see oliver samuels. As far as I know, I think this is his first film role, because we've mostly seen him in theater.

Speaker 3: 27:38

Actually no. So if you go on his IMDb, he has two for some reason, but there's one that has that's full with all of his credits. He actually has been in about, I would say, six or seven credited film roles or television roles, obviously, one of which is the big one, Oliver at Large. But he was actually in a movie in 1989 with Denzel Washington, starring Denzel Washington, which is shot in Jamaica. Yeah, yeah, fun fact.

Speaker 1: 28:04

Oh, I know which movie that, because Charlie Ralph is in that one.

Speaker 2: 28:07

May I have a go watch Carrie? May I have a go watch?

Speaker 3: 28:25

Yeah, let's watch. Add it to the list for Reels and Rhythms. Watch, yes, so I don't know if it's Danisha or Tristan whoever wants to take it.

Speaker 3: 28:31

What was it like working with the Oliver Samuel Boxman huh, a world-class savant? He is a artist's artist. He takes his work very seriously, but he has a level of warmth and care and love and obviously humor that he carries himself with. And so oftentimes when people ask me how I was working with Oliver, the best way I can describe it is by saying it was like when people say don't meet your heroes because you might be disappointed. It was the exact opposite. It was meeting a hero, somebody who shaped not only how I saw myself but saw the community, saw humor specifically West Indian humor, and specifically my own personal humor influenced it quite a bit and I met him and worked with him and he was just so gracious and caring. I mean, he started out as a, as a, a colleague or as this sort of legend that I was working with, and he ended up being like my papa, you know, and and I never grew up with, with a grandfather, and so I adopted him as my grandfather because it was such a an amazing experience.

Speaker 3: 29:45

It felt like there was a level of almost like transferring of of a legacy or the baton to the next generation, like everybody could feel like, like we want to honor him and in honoring him, like everybody could feel like, like we want to honor him and in honoring him, he felt comfortable with like being like you guys need to keep on doing this and creating these and telling these stories. And we felt that sort of the, the mantra or not the mantra, but the mantle of what that weight is, you know what I mean Of making sure that we follow through on Sugar Dumpling but then other productions, because this can't just stop at Sugar Dumpling, it has to continue on. And so it was. It was wonderful, it was spiritual, it was a blessing and it and it was hella funny. So that's that's what it was like working with Oliver. Danisha can talk too, because Danisha know Oliver a long time yes, I've known Oliver since I was maybe like 17.

Speaker 4: 30:38

I'm about to be a lot older than 17 right now. That's over 25 years that I've known Oliver Samuel since I started out acting in theatre. Oliver has always been a giant but who was always willing to mentor and be open and critical and honest and accountable. As somebody who carries such a legacy, just like Tristan said, for me when I understood all of the elements of the story not just the story, the premise, but also the opportunity of being able to honor a living legend it was just like all right what we go hard with this one, because how often do you get a chance to roll out a red carpet for oliver samuels to walk on?

Speaker 4: 31:29

You know, oliver, just like you said, you weren't sure if oliver has ever done film before he. He wasn't around when black film or whatever was exploding. Now he's older, he's, you know. So it's up to us to be like all right, guess what? You never missed a train. See your moments here too. Here are your accolades, you know, and it's a joy to be able to honor our living legends. You know, just like Tristan said, I too never really grew up with my grandfather on my mother's side anyways, but I know of the legacy and it lives, and so I have a very keen insight on why it is important for us to honor our living legends.

Speaker 3: 32:14

You know, give them a chance to tell their own story too and I think also, like you know, it's so funny because both of us again have different, separate experiences when it comes to oliver, you know, um, but but they're both meaningful and we both, I think. At one point danisha and I looked at each other. We're like, listen, there's bob, there's usain, there's Usain, there's Oliver. Like, these are our legends, like Oliver is no less of a legend, a Jamaican ambassador of Jamaican culture and entertainment and legacy and love and passion, than any of those other individuals. And I would argue in some ways, like he has 40 years of doing this, 40 years, like I mean, like we just need to make sure that we are intentional about not just saying hey, thank you for making us laugh, but thank you for existing and having the imagination to create us and reflect us on screen.

Speaker 3: 33:16

You know I go back to Oliver so much because watching Oliver and my parents on a Sunday afternoon in the 90s, early 90s, late 80s, early 90s was a unique experience. Because when you are an immigrant in a new country, there is, you know, one of my friends, david, says in another film there is an armor that you have to carry and put on when you leave the house that's not easily shed. And so Oliver gave my parents permission to shed that armor and to remember you're Jamaican, you're Jamaican, you're Jamaican, right, and just allow them to relax and just let their hair down. And that that's powerful as a kid, seeing your parents go from stress thinking about bills, all that other stuff, to just laughing and just being proud of being who they are, from, where they came from. And so, yeah, I think that we need to make sure that we're honoring him.

Speaker 3: 34:10

And this whole rollout, even with the film festivals, is all about like, yeah, we can get it, we could easily just release this on social media. We could easily just release this on social media. We could send this, you know, put this on. We have streamers already asking us now to put this on streaming platforms. But we want and we believe that this story and Oliver himself belongs on the biggest stages, belongs in front of the most diverse crowds, right, and so it's not about Oliver's ability, it's about him being exposed to a broader audience. You know what I mean, and I think, once he gets exposed to that, I think his career, I think he's going to have a second wind.

Speaker 1: 34:45

Absolutely. I've had the privilege of seeing Oliver perform in plays. I worked with the promoter that used to bring the Jambys plays to New York and so seeing him perform in person with Muffy, with Glenn Titus Campbell, those were just wonderful experiences and I mean the crowd will come into Brooklyn, queens, bronx, even when they go to Connecticut People, and not only Jamaican but Caribbean people, because there is something, like you said, like they get a space where, yes, it might talk my language. We know what is going on. Like he sees me, we're not putting on the air of. You know, I come from Jamaica and you know none of those things you know. So I am beyond excited because, yes, oliver deserves this. So, before we switch to distribution, can you touch on it a little bit? Which is your favorite Oliver skit? Real quick, michaela, I'll start with you and then Tristan and Danisha. I'll give you time to think about it.

Speaker 1: 35:51

You already know it's Oliver. No, you have to say it.

Speaker 2: 35:56

Why are you asking me this? No, just say you have to say it.

Speaker 1: 35:58

Why are you asking me this? No, just say it. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 36:01

When I put on my cap and I put on my head and I put on my ears muff, just like Oliver.

Speaker 1: 36:08

See if you can match up the airport. Yes, yes.

Speaker 3: 36:16

Go Dee, go, go go.

Speaker 4: 36:17

No, I think we're all going to say it's the same one.

Speaker 1: 36:21

No, for me it's not the same one.

Speaker 4: 36:23

Okay, well, I mean I the first time I learned about pot cover dumpling. I'm not touching on the plate, okay, and anytime you're playing landing now are you hear the people start? You know, like oliver, for me, oliver is also, he's a rebel, in in a very interesting way, because joy is a part of the rebellion and for, just like tristan said, for our people to be able to let down them here and to laugh, that that's, that's a kind of reclamation of self that is happening and Oliver has led that charge for us internationally in terms of the joy part, Oliver and Usain Bolt as leaders in these different spaces, it must be recognized that these are also rebels who are born in non-Babylon, just in a different kind of way taking up space, you know.

Speaker 4: 37:25

So yeah, the part cover, the part cover episode in the plane is by Flavorites.

Speaker 1: 37:34

Flavorites.

Speaker 3: 37:35

Go on, tristan, I mean it's, it's a mixture, of mixture of the whole airport episode, that whole episode, that whole 30 minutes the two part episode.

Speaker 3: 37:46

Yeah, that's the greatest, probably some of the greatest West Indian Caribbean comedic writing of all time, and performances are extremely amazing. I wish I could have been a fly on the wall trying to act while oliver is just acting a mess, um. But then also, it's, it's the um, it's where he was. He was, uh, acting like he was. He was rasta for the, for that name of the parents, and he was just like the food. The food was looking good and he couldn't help himself.

Speaker 3: 38:15

Oh man, those two, those two skits I I go back to and I actually, before we, we started shooting my, my kids, I realized my kids never had seen anything from oliver and so, to prepare them, I was like, hey, let's watch some oliver at large, like my kids are, are 10 and and 12 respectively, and we were dying laughing and they turned to, like my son turned to me and said now I, I understand you a little bit better, dad, like I, I get, I get your humor, I get where you're coming from, because that was the our history, right, and so that's the legacy, the power of of of oliver, and quick, quick story before we change gears. So we, we live. I live in rural outside of Toronto about an hour and ten minutes.

Speaker 1: 38:55

Woi, woi, woi woi, woi, woi. All the way to Choco. All the way to Choco. Shut your mouth.

Speaker 3: 39:06

Woi, woi Up north, where polar bears live. I live up north. I had Oliver close to us in the town beside us. Long story short. He said, oh, I have to buy, I have to Tristan, can we go to Walmart and pick up some stuff? I said, okay, that's fine. So we go to Walmart and the amount of people that stopped us it was every Black person was like I grew up watching you. Is that hold on? Is that Oliver? Is that you? And then Oliver be like I don, watching you, is that hold on? Is that Oliver? Is that you? And then Oliver would be. I don't know, is that me? Okay, come, let's take a picture. Come, come, quick, quick. And then he wouldn't say anything to people, but you could see people like stop and then walk past him, then walk by again and be like wait, is that you, is that me?

Speaker 3: 40:02

And it was said. I said the power and the legacy. I was just like, okay, well, I guess I have no idea how big this is going to be, and so obviously the trailer dropped and the rest is history.

Speaker 1: 40:13

Yeah, my favorite one and it's my favorite because when I went back to Jamaica to visit in 95, my grandmother shared yeah, my favorite one. And it's my favorite because when I went back to Jamaica to visit in 95, my grandmother shared it with me and I guess that's why it's also my favorite. It's irreverent, reverend. When he was pretending to be the minister from foreign and when his mother was preaching and he said the nidda, fuck and joke able in him navel.

Speaker 3: 40:41

Yo, that was, I was done, I was done, I was done.

Speaker 1: 40:43

It was that wig, it was that wig for me. And then he said God would add iniquity to your iniquity. I was just like why, the whole summer I was watching it. So that is my favorite, my favorite. So now, switching gears, let's talk about distribution, because that was one of the first things. Like mr michaela, is this a reals and rhythms, live thing? How we can do a screening, all we can support, like. I know that the film festival route is typically where our projects get pushed for various reasons and we just work with the program or the system where we can. But where can people get to see? Because everybody, yo, they're my hanker for the film, like, what, like. Where are we going to get to see it?

Speaker 3: 41:24

So it's a two part answer to a question. I think what I'll take is I'll tackle the film festival part and then Denisha will take care of or speak to the social impact, which will directly speak to sort of how we're going to get it to the community. Because we we appreciate and we acknowledge and and understand, like people's excitement and we're excited to to showcase it and share it. We also understand the responsibility of we are independent filmmakers. What that means is we put the money into everything.

Speaker 4: 41:53

So what you saw we get into the money parts. Saw all of the money come all of.

Speaker 1: 41:56

We're getting to the money parts because we know the money all of it. Okay, just on your margarita house for pfd margarita, the message shift.

Speaker 3: 42:09

No, listen, um listen. The pit did their bad. Uh, stepping on healing toe and getting some change, and at the same time the boom work everything, everything, listen.

Speaker 3: 42:18

No, um, this is so. This is something that I I really want to say because I think it's super important. Um, when god gives you a vision, um, you, you got to step out right and and the, the, the miracle comes at the, at the end of your comfort. Okay, um, when I say say miracle, I don't mean that, you know, something's just going to fly out of the sky, but what, what happened for us was and when I say us, my, me and my wife, natanya, for several years we, we, we applied for grant funding through different Canadian arts councils, tried to get funding in different capacities, and everybody passed on the project. Everybody said no, no, no, no, no, we don't, you know, we can't support it. Unfortunately, you only came up here, unfortunately, because of oversubscription, blah, blah, all this stuff.

Speaker 3: 43:02

And so my wife and I looked at each other, you know, earlier this year, and we said we said, listen, if not now, then when right came, after a very pivotal or critical time, which was last fall, we were trying to get the project done, um, with our kind of starting it with our own financing and then hoping to get the financing back from a, from arts council, and, uh, things didn't work out in casting and we couldn't cast our, our desmond character, which is who oliver plays, and essentially what happened was, um, we were really kind of like down in the dumps. And maybe a day or two later I saw a post from oliver on my feed and I had never seen a post from oliver and he was just doing his thing. And I sent it to one of my executive producers, uh, shanta o'reilly, and I said hey, what do you think about oliver? And she's like well, do you know anybody in his camp? I was like no, and she's like okay, bet, within two we got a hold of Oliver, oliver's team and Oliver's team was like yeah, we want to be a part of it. And then from there it was just like each domino. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 44:03

We got some additional funding, personal funding, which we we put into the project. You know Denisha, like we saw her at the, at the screening of her grandfather's film One Love at TIFF, and then I had a conversation with her, maybe like several months later, and we just like, like she was just like okay, cool, I'm going to help you get a sponsorship with Grace and and help you with this, and my team is going to come and it was just. It was just things just happened and moved. And so I say all that because I want people to understand that there's a lot of sweat equity, a lot of value that's been put into this project, people to understand that there's a lot of sweat equity, a lot of value that's been put into this project and we want to be good managers of it in terms of being able to get both critical acclaim and prestige acclaim. And that's what you get through film festivals and film distribution. When you go to the festivals, what you're allowing and essentially doing is you are now broadcasting to the mainstream populace that, hey, jamaican stories made by Jamaicans, produced by Jamaicans, starring Jamaicans talking about Jamaican culture, are just as important, just as powerful, just as meaningful as anything else coming out of any other country. And if we just go directly to the end consumer, then we miss out on the opportunity of marketing and broadcasting that and allowing people in France, in Dubai, in South Africa, in UK, in Canada and other parts of the West Indies and South America and Central America, in America, to see the power of us reclaiming our own stories and telling it the way we want to tell it Right.

Speaker 3: 45:32

One thing that you that you may have noticed with the trailer and you'll you'll notice once you watch the film is we don't have any subtitles, because, guess what, when I watched the Crown, I don't have subtitles for British accents or for Irish accents, so why should we have any sort of subtitles for Patois? It's okay, learn it, watch it again, be submersed and immersed in a different culture, right? We don't have to have everything centralized around a Eurocentric, colonial viewpoint. No, we're decentralizing the way that we tell stories, and so that's why it's important as well as to get into those places that are so Eurocentric, that are so focused. They're all taking it from the white gaze, right, Everything is from the white gaze, everything. Oh, we got to have it this way, we got to have these sort of plot points. We got to have a white friend, we got to have this.

Speaker 3: 46:17

No, these are black, extremely black, beautiful, talented actors and performers and producers that are telling black stories. That is a universal, universal nature that can speak to anybody in any community, and we're just going to do it from that vantage point. And so that's the importance of of of doing the film festival route as well as winning awards, getting an acknowledgement and then also getting sponsorship and hopefully distributing it, getting a Netflix or a Paramount Plus to now say, hey, there's value in this short film. Maybe we want to develop it, maybe we want to just put it right up on our streaming platform and get people to connect to our platform, get people to connect to our platform. So that's a little bit about why the importance of film festivals are in terms of the process and why we're going that route in relationship to also doing the the social impact part. So I'll throw it over to denisha now yeah, I think that was very well said.

Speaker 4: 47:08

Trist because it's it is uh complex now because, just like you're saying, carrie, this, what they do is that they want us to make our films, take it to film festivals and then put it on a streaming platform, and that's when you've gotten success, when up your words. But, like for me, it can't end there, because it didn't start there. It started at the community. Like we took the story from the community, we brought it here and then we brought it here, so it has to come back to the community in some way. It's like somebody trying to sell me a Bob Marley t-shirt and expect me to buy it.

Speaker 4: 47:43

Sir, I am not. What's the nicest way I can say this to these people. You know what I'm saying. So for me it's the same kind of thing like you can't just take stories from communities and and win awards and never bring it back to the community and when the only way the community can see it is if they have a subscription to netflix or if they're going to pay for it in cineplex, that's great, but at the same time it it also doesn't give the creator, the creative, an opportunity to to see what his work has and can do. You know, if we just create something and give our baby over to the distributor to go and place and exploit and do all of that, it almost breaks the artist. I mean, sometimes I think I get too entangled with the work, but stories are like that. Stories are the breath of somebody, are the memories of somebody. It's more than just award-winning.

Speaker 4: 48:43

So the social impact piece of this is where the community will be able to engage with the story, and not just with the film but the entire project, the mission, the movement behind it, all of the tenants of it honoring our elders, archiving in the Black family, in the Black community, mental health which is a conversation we never have aging parents living internationally, you know, and trying to maintain communities so that we can thrive, like there are just so many conversations to have. And other levels to this too is that we want to use this opportunity, because right now we've established a relationship with the Alzheimer's Association of Ontario and we hope to pair that relationship with dementia organizations in Jamaica, because there's an opportunity here to share best practices and potentially share resources and all of that kind of thing. So this film presents itself to be a tool that can help to open up national and international conversations and explore research that has not been prioritized prior to this, you know. So it's all of those pieces, and we're having a premiere in Jamaica in February.

Speaker 3: 49:57

Yes.

Speaker 3: 49:57

That's the first like like lucky thing, and can I just say one thing? One thing because I think it's super important, and both Dinesh and I feel the same way about this is that, being a artist, a Jamaican artist, a Black artist we have the responsibility of creating and being true to our art, but then also a responsibility to being true and authentic to our community, and we can't just do the commercial thing, but we recognize that being able to have a level of commercial success allows us to generate the finances to make another thing. So it's the yes and ism of everything that we do in the Black community, and what's powerful, what can be powerful, is when the community gets excited. They back the thing, they support the thing, they invest in the thing, because then we can make more of that thing without having to you know, in the words of Denisha be associated with Babylon. Right, we don't have to now give it to a white system that was designed not for our stories and not through their filter, to try and now monetize it Like we have, you know, just in the continent.

Speaker 3: 51:09

Let's just talk about Jamaica. We have millions of Jamaicans around the world, right, if each one of them just paid a dollar or $5 or whatever else to contribute to projects like this, we would be able to create a sustainable film industry within ourselves, very, very similar to Black Hollywood in the States. But we have to see the vision for that. Anyway, sorry.

Speaker 1: 51:28

Yo yo yo, I thought me aid All right, so let me go back. So about a year ago I had someone on the podcast. She's based in the UK, but she did a short film project about dementia in Dominica. Sorry, but she's based in the UK. So if you're looking for connections, you know Alzheimer's organizations, you know all the work that she's doing there. I'll connect you. You know, rihanna Patterson is just doing really great work and her entire short film and it was inspired because of her grandparents as well. Right, so again, for us, the stories are inspired by. You know, real thing, I go on. You just touch upon the other thing.

Speaker 1: 52:07

I was talking on another podcast with Horry and like which part through with people, them that are support with film projects. Right, would it beg a system for support through with projects? But I said the system who we're asking for? They're like are your people supporting these projects? Because if our people not supporting these projects, why should we support your projects? So we as a community need to. You know one one cocoa full basket. All of these things we need. Left the land talking and just do it, I'll say this.

Speaker 3: 52:33

I'll say this to add to your point. You know, Kerianne is like let's really be very granular with what support looks like.

Speaker 3: 52:41

Yeah, is like, let's really be very granular with what support looks like. Yeah, support looks like both monetary investment donating to projects but then also showing up when we are doing things, whether we are having activations, whether you know resources of time and of skill. Maybe you're a marketer, maybe you're you're a social media coordinator. Maybe your profession has allows you to. You're a social media coordinator, maybe your profession has allows you to have skills that are transferable. For because we have a smaller production company right, it's both myself, our mid-career productions and HOV.

Speaker 3: 53:11

There we have to rethink and recalibrate the way that we come together as a community and and support is not. Hey, I have a free copy of it, I'm going to send it over to you now and watch it. Support is like that's great and I don't want to. You know, if people don't have money, I don't want to say don't watch the film at all, but I'm saying we need to show up in the ways that will allow us to build an ecosystem and not be siloed, because the siloing is killing us as creatives and us as a community. And then we get upset when we see a black cake and we see some mashup crackers, patois, or we see you know, you watch my episode on black cake, don't you?

Speaker 3: 53:52

I'm just saying. It felt like I was drinking Circe water or tea or something in my mouth it was bitter, it was disgusting. I made up my face and I couldn't finish the thing.

Speaker 1: 54:05

Anyways, that's my in my mouth. It was bitter, it was disgusting. I made up my face and I couldn't watch. I couldn't finish the thing. Anyways, michaela, we tell you caught me. I couldn't believe the way, oh my grief, blood of his murder, but anyway. So you and danisha have my contact. So you already know I am about that and that's why we created reels and rhythms. We're like, if we look out in this space, there are a lot of other communities creating podcasts, just giving film reviews, just talking about projects, projects that have strong Caribbean or Jamaican storyline, the director in there, all of these things. Because you know, even when the people on YouTube make comments that are like, ok, fine, the whole point is you watch it, get to know these projects, get to know these, these actors, get to know all of these things because it's important. So you know, however, we are volunteer, michaela, but we're not really volunteer, are like however way, you need help, just just shoot an email and we'll do it right.

Speaker 2: 54:53

So you won't volunteer me, you know no, I really love the energy.

Speaker 1: 55:01

I may watch your time. So I have a fun question. May I manhandle the whole conversation? So, all right, I feel like Danisha might push back upon this, but everybody are reboot things now. Everybody is into reboots. Fun question so if you were to reboot a thing, add your own flair, a little sprinkler, a little seasoning upon it, what would you reboot? And give a little sprinkler like a seasoning pan it, what would you reboot? Um, and give a little log line about that reboot?

Speaker 3: 55:27

uh, tanisha, oh man, this is a great question. Um, I, I would, I would, if I could, I would, I would actually. Um, I'm big on sketch comedy, so I reboot Oliver at Large. I don't want to go into the exact details of what that would look like, but I think no man like keep it, keep it, keep it. But I would just I would just say that there, there is something there that that I think can be transformative, can be a generational opportunity, and so that's that's what I say, oliver at large.

Speaker 1: 56:04

Did he just raise a gas stand?

Speaker 4: 56:07

I just have to smile. You know, I just have to smile because it's just such a you know, an interesting question. I want to say little. I would also want to reboot Oliver at large, but everything that we just explained in this entire conversation unaligning joy is the rebellion, and that's kind of what we want to do.

Speaker 1: 56:31

Love it, love it. All right, michaela, I'll let you close out, I'll chat out the whole thing.

Speaker 2: 56:37

No, no, I love the conversation. I'm like we're all on mute laughing. People are not not gonna know, but if you watch it on YouTube you'll see all the laughter that is happening. But we're not trying to talk over each other. What would you reboot, Keri? I would reboot Dancehall Queen and actually put current K-artist I think Shen Sia versus somebody like somebody else. She would be Alavine, though she wouldn't be Marcia. She would not be Alavine.

Speaker 3: 57:13

She can't be Marcia, she's Alavine we have to keep the names too. The same the same name Alavine and Marcia. Yeah, after God's cactus, the name of the the same name Aloeveen and Mycete.

Speaker 2: 57:22

Yeah, I forgot Cactus. The name of the club I understand, but it just needs to be rebooted A whole era.

Speaker 1: 57:30

Alright, so me can decide. Would I reboot Lunatic with the Paul Campbell? I love Lunatic, but also I would reboot a stage player called Boops. It originally had um alavine, india. Uh, what's your name again?

Speaker 3: 57:48

uh these names are incredible. I love these boops audrey, audrey, yes yes okay.

Speaker 4: 58:03

Well, since you're gonna say plays, I'm gonna put it out there. I would reboot um cinderella, alicia and the dj prince, because that was my. That was my my second play I ever did, but we ran for like almost three years straight and that time in my life was just amazing, you know being on stage like that.

Speaker 1: 58:22

So, yeah, I would do that shit I would reboot our wall-e pottings, lime tree, lean, all these things. Okay, all right. Tristan is like what is that? All right, let's go. All right, let's wheel it back in like I don't know about the one there, but um people have internet no, the jbc not have the records to them, something no more, I think. The records one down four times time yeah, all of them.

Speaker 3: 58:49

Again, archiving right yeah, yeah, I would, I would do that, um, but again, just the artistry.

Speaker 1: 58:58

You know the creativity that we come from. The storytelling. Like no one tells a story like a Jamaican. Every time I'm about to tell a story, michaela drops the emoji. That goes me go, so boops.

Speaker 2: 59:10

Me go, so boops.

Speaker 3: 59:12

Cause me ready for going on a story has anybody thought of like? I'm surprised nobody has done like a horror suspense film.

Speaker 1: 59:22

Oh, stop, stop, it's coming suspense film oh, stop, stop, it's coming.

Speaker 4: 59:24

Tristan, stop, stop, stop, stop, it's coming A.

Speaker 3: 59:27

Nancy though.

Speaker 4: 59:29

No, stop, stop.

Speaker 1: 59:30

Stop, stop.

Speaker 3: 59:34

I'm good. I'm good. I don't do horror, so I'm good. No me, not a dopey movie either.

Speaker 2: 59:39

Like a dopey dopey, but no, because I really believe.

Speaker 3: 59:43

I really believe, so I can't do stuff I really believe in. I can't be filming Lord Jesus, please. No, I can't do that. I can't, yes.

Speaker 1: 59:55

When I used to go to St Mary to visit my mother family and we have to walk past the cemetery. One piece of sprint. We sprint for one pass, except because it pitch black. You know, you ever see the outline of the tree, them in our country.

Speaker 1: 1:00:08

I wish prayer which prayer no, but this has been incredibly, incredibly, just a filling conversation. I can't begin to tell you how much this has filled me with joy, right of being affirmed, feeling seen, you know, and so any last words before we wrap up this conversation. We are incredibly proud and you know, if anything, the reaction is a testament to the hunger of wanting to see more of us on screen in ways that we can identify with. And you know people might say well, you know what's the big deal. We are seen, we are affirmed in language, we are affirmed in nuance and behavior, peculiarities, all of these things, because sometimes you don't want to be othered, you just want yo, me there with me, people, I just always stay. So, again, thank you.

Speaker 3: 1:01:03

Yeah, I think the last thing I would say to all the people is thank you so much. We've heard, seen, like, read all of your comments and all of your likes and your shares. We really appreciate it. We ask you to continue to share the trailer. Go to the website, please wwwsugardumplingfilmcom. That's wwwsugardumplingfilmcom. Yeah, no g on the dumpling. Yeah, no g on the dumpling.

Speaker 3: 1:01:32

Um, and you'll learn more about the project, learn more about the creative team, learn, learn, uh, cbts, stuff, um. As well as you, you'll have an opportunity to join our mailing list. That's where you're going to actually be the first ones to learn about where we're screening. Once we start getting into our festival run and opening up different territories, once we have our festival premieres, we're going to start having screenings in those areas, right, and so we're really excited because we're looking at like, right after we, right after we do our really our big premiere, official premiere in Jamaica, we're full scale rollout. We're going to be going into communities having conversations with those in the community. You know, having a lot of different experiences. We're looking at doing culinary experiences as well as mental health and wellness, as well as educational and educational and DEI conversations as well. So this is a project that you will be seeing for years to come.

Speaker 3: 1:02:25

Um, the one thing I would say and ask you to consider those of you that are watching and listening is to donate. Um, every single dollar that's been donated is is, uh being put to good use, right? Um, like we said before, this is all self-funded. We put about, you know, 60 to 70 grand of our own money and our own community's money into this, and so we want to make sure that we're fiscally responsible and we can take care of, you know, repatriating those funds to make sure that we can make new projects and develop what we have.

Speaker 3: 1:02:56

So consider also donating because, or if, and even if you're not donating with, with, uh, with money, you can donate with. You know, maybe you have a, a discount, or you can sponsor us for travel, or sponsor a hotel, or sponsor, uh, a screening space. Those are all valuable things as well, and so we're we're really open to figuring out or, or, like danisha was like, like we're creating our own ecosystem of how we're doing the thing, right, because we're no longer relying on other voices and the current system to try and deliver our own stories. We can't trust it. It doesn't work, it's broken, frankly and we need to figure out a part of or facilities where we can actually screen in your community.

Speaker 4: 1:04:02

Tristan is saying we are looking forward to people reaching out organizations and individuals to book potential screenings for 2025. After we do our Jamaica screening, then the sky's the limit. We no longer have any requirements or limitations around an exclusive premiere, that kind of thing. So we're hoping to be as grassroots as possible while we give the film the honor it deserves, and that requires community, like the act of community C-O-M-E-U-N-I-T-Y. You know, this responsibility is also an ability to respond, so we are hoping that the community takes up their responsibility and actually responds when we ask them to stand up and help us to book a theater or help us to get a partner in this city to make the screening free for others. We want the community to understand what it takes to tell stories, what it takes to become filmmakers.

Speaker 4: 1:04:59

There are so many different entry points, and so we really are looking at this almost like a social science experiment too, in a way. You know, it's not very often that you get a filmmaker with a premier piece of content like Sugar Dumpling and a legend like Oliver Samuels to be like okay, we're open to taking it to the community. You know, usually people are just like no, we want to do it the standard way this, this, that, that, that, that. So for me too, I see this as an opportunity for us to really do something unique and something truly Jamaican, you know, with how we take up space in these places, like we don't need a standard, we are the standard listen.

Speaker 1: 1:05:57

She said I can't put our heels down rhythms, but all right, more elaborate after. So everyone listen, thank you for joining this episode and, as I love to say at the end of every episode, walk good. Later, bye. Michaela used to say later my peeps, please participate, do not just watch and don't do the homework that they just give you for. Do so, thank you, and let me say walk good.