Speaker 1: 1:03

Hello everyone, Welcome to another episode of Carry On Friends. I am so excited today to have Natalie join me on the podcast. Natalie, how are you doing?

Speaker 2: 1:15

I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me, Carrie-Anne.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Wonderful and I'm excited about the topic we're going to get into. But before we do that, why don't you tell the community of friends a little bit about who you are, Caribbean country you represent, and a little bit about the work you do?

Speaker 2: 1:30

Okay, I'm going to start out with where I'm from the big bad, the one and only black, green and gold Jamaica. So, as we said, my name is Natalie Bennett. I am currently in a season of transition in my life. Right, I call myself a multi-hyphenate because there's so many things that I am doing that I have done that I want to do so. By profession, I'm in IT, so I left Jamaica, came here for my master's, ended up working at Google as a senior product manager. That's my last gig, I will call it.

Speaker 2: 2:03

During this year, there's been transitions with layoffs, of tech, and that has landed me squarely in the seat of being an entrepreneur. And that takes me into my current business, which is as a coach. I am the Thrive Mindset Coach, and what that means right now is I have spent a lot of time trying to figure myself out. I talk about the fact that my last gig was at Google. I have been what everyone would call successful.

Speaker 2: 2:32

I will call myself successful, but there came a time, despite overcoming all the challenges getting to this place, that I wasn't completely fulfilled, and I spent a lot of time trying to figure that out, and a part of that was me saying okay, god, what do you want me to do with this life that you've given me? And so I have come up with as my purpose is that I want other people, like I am doing, to walk in their God-given identities right, whatever that looks like for them, and then I want them to enjoy life while they're doing it. And so what does that look like? How do I go about doing that? Coaching is one of because I said I'm a multi-hyphenate one of the things that I know I can use to reach people, in a way, and inspire, uplift and empower them to go after what has already been given to them and they were created to be and to do.

Speaker 1: 3:24

This is why I wanted to have this conversation with you, so we're going to pull on a couple threads. First, let's talk about the layoffs, because again it's in tech, there's a downturn. And walk me through this reconciliation of you just said, like you have been successful, but even though you have been successful, you may not have always seen yourself as successful. And then now this layoff commander, you're like Lord G, you know. So talk to me about that, you know, because that's something that I've identified with. So talk to me about how you are reconciling this with a layoff that is emotionally, psychologically, financially, adding stress to aspects of your life.

Speaker 2: 4:16

So that's the funny thing, it actually isn't, and I'm going to tell you why it isn't. This is not my first layoff in my life. This is like my third layoff in my life, right? And so if we go back about like, what does success look like? What does it mean? What does that look like for me? I think I was lucky enough to start this journey a few years ago, so when the layoff happened I was almost ready for it. I was almost like telling myself I already said to my friend early last year when they were doing layoffs. I said if I get laid off, I'm not going to look for another job. That was already in my psyche and that's because I had done the work to go back about not feeling successful.

Speaker 2: 4:54

I think it comes from how I grew up, because I grew up poor from Kingston, jamaica didn't have a lot ghetto life. Nothing much is expected to come out of those communities. I was being led and driven by just coming out of scarcity. The thing that was driving me was coming out of scarcity, proving that I was not going to end up a teenage mom, proving that I could make it. There were these things inside of me that I didn't even realize that was driving me. So every time I would go a little bit further. I'm like wait, am I far enough away from where I started? So my mind wasn't even processing the success it was processing. I'm no longer poor, I'm no longer the person they thought I was going to be and sadly, it also meant that I was still trying to prove myself to other people.

Speaker 2: 5:44

So even my definition of success was incorrect, because every time I got to a level I would look at the people who would have said something to say am I successful now? And if they didn't give me the response I was looking for, it meant I had not arrived right. And so there was a lot of unlearning I had to do and to recover myself and to really figure out, like I said, who am I? Going back to my God-given identity? Who am I? What was I called to do? How do I want to show up in this world? And what does that look like for Natalie, not for my mom, not for my family, not for the community, not for my church, what does that look like for me? And so that was really the epiphany where I can look back and say I am successful, like I have done so much, even if I didn't have the accolades behind my name. I have done so much that, within my own right, I have lived a successful life.

Speaker 1: 6:40

Man, you gave me a list. I'm like scribbling. I can't even tip myself off mute properly to catch up. So, of all the things, I'm going to go to the part that I feel like it connect, like when Shrimpy knuckled somebody you understand what I'm saying Like this version of success that is defined by accolades, that is defined by accolades, and when you are looking at your personal success, you're looking at accolades. What, then, is success defined as, or should be defined as, outside of accolades? Because we're not saying accolades isn't success, it is a reward as a result of success, right, and that's one thing. But what should we be looking at to evaluate success? And I'll be very honest. So we're in 2025.

Speaker 1: 7:40

It's been 10 years since I launched the first episode of the podcast and, as I was looking ahead, I was like all right, I'm celebrating these 10 years, but what's my success? I've been doing this for 10 years. I don't have tens and thousands of followers, I don't have this, and I had to think of what's my impact, you know, not just on others, but on myself, and that was a very hard exercise because I honestly know what you're talking about. When I have time for look past. Success is just, it's like a checklist Boom, check off the list after the next one. I have not really basked in the success. I have not been like, oh wow, yes, let's boggle to that Like nothing. So how should we be looking at success One? But how do we take a beat to bask in the success, little and big, because the little ones build on towards the bigger ones, so agreed.

Speaker 2: 8:55

So success is not a destination, just like life is in the destination. It's a journey. So I say to people, you have to define it for yourself and in order to say if you're successful, you have to think about where you're going. And this is where it comes into having a vision for your life, having goals that you set and coming back to what's your why. You have a podcast. You're on this. Everybody's like the numbers, the likes, the X, y, z. If that is your measure of success, then you're successful in your own right. Nobody can take that away from you. You mentioned impact earlier. Is that what is your why? Right, and so it comes back to really being clear about why are you doing the things that you're doing? Are you doing it to be liked? Are you doing it to become famous? Are you doing it because you want to? You believe there's a story. There's going to be at least one person who's going to hear a story on your show and that's going to change that person's life. So for you, you're successful.

Speaker 2: 9:53

There have been times on this even entrepreneurial journey that I'm on. Now I have to get up and say Natalie, what is your? Why? Have you hit your? Why? Yet? Is there somebody out there who is waiting for your why? And I said, right, I want to help people to walk in their God-given identity and to enjoy their life. There's. If it's even one person, starting with myself, then I've done the work right and so, and it's that's a hard thing to do, by the way, and I'm not saying that disappointment doesn't come and you don't look around and go like, is this really what I should be measuring myself by? But it comes to for me, I am at a place where I want to live fulfilled. I remember I got to this really weird point in my life where I was saying to my therapist I would give up all this money in the world to not feel the way I feel right now. Right, and I said it out of frustration and anger, but it made me realize that something else, something deeper, was at play and what I was calling success was not filling me up.

Speaker 2: 10:54

And if we look at society, we see so many people who are successful and they choose to step out of this life. We see them as successful and they're alcoholics, and I'm not saying that those things are in any way condemning them, but it's because what we believe is gonna make us happy. We get there and we realize we're not fulfilled, and that's because we're chasing after the wrong things, we're not feeding our truest selves, we're not talking to what is gonna feed our soul, what makes us uniquely, us, right. We're not being our truest right, we're not being our true ourselves, we're not being authentic. And so we show up and everyone else is like, oh, and we're like I don't even like who I am when I'm doing this, right. And so it really comes down to spending time being clear on who you are, what you carry, what do you want to do in this world? How do you want to show up and be willing to be true to that, even if it doesn't look like what everybody else around you is doing?

Speaker 1: 11:50

And again, I'm telling you I know it's not easy, it's a hard thing to do, but it's worth doing, and that's why I do the work that I do right now the part of it not looking or making sense to anyone, I think is one part that I want to emphasize, because for a very long time, well-meaning, well-intentioned people will say you should do this, you should do that. I'm like I don't really want to do that Because I know it's not for me. I know it's what other people have done to be successful, but it's not what I want to do. But not feeling it, and you know there are moments you'll question yourself and say did I make the right decision? And then sometimes you have to just say you know what, just follow your mind. As we said, just do that and just keep on it.

Speaker 1: 12:40

So you know there are times when you are even second guessing the decisions that you've made, like this is for me, especially when the results not coming as fast right as you want them to, yeah, yeah. And you look left and right and say, hmm, natalie, I'll go on with things. You're sure we shouldn't do this, that type of thing. So I do want to stress that. Now you said something about you know when Nendi start with the layoff and you're like you know what? If they do it? I know I don't want another full-time job. Talk to me about some of that work that you've done, that groundwork. So when that came time for the layoff, you're like I'm good, I already think through this. Like, talk, talk to me a little bit about some of that inner work that you had to do.

Speaker 2: 13:32

Yeah, I probably hit rock bottom and thought there's nowhere else to go at some point pandemic life and everything else there was just too much going on and I started to like sit with myself a lot and be willing to have that conversation and therapy. We're Black people, caribbean people, black people Like therapy is a good thing Even as a Christian, therapy is a good thing. And so I recognized that I didn't have all the answers and so I went to therapy and my therapist was great at helping to inspire me and to have me do the work in those sessions. But then I had to take it outside of that. I started to shift things in my life. When I tell you, I shift, first things I did was I moved and I moved into a new environment. Right, because the environment that we're in will either be our cage or our community, or it gives us choice, right. So I changed my environment. I just have to shift. I changed my wardrobe, like everything that I was. It's almost like I was peeling away layers of myself to find the real me, and that meant everything in me and around me had to change and I had to start to think about what was driving my decisions. And again, like I said, that's by no means easy work, it's not done but I had to do decisions. And again, like I said, that's by no means easy work, it's not done, but I had to do that. And, as a person of faith, that was a lot of spending time with God and really asking him. Okay, god, I could come to you one more time and say, god helped me to keep my job, or God helped me to give me another job, but I decided to sit with him to say, okay, god, I need your revelation, I need your clarity. I needed to tell me what do you want from me? Not bless this thing I have in my hand, but what do you want from me? And out of that, all of these different things started to evolve.

Speaker 2: 15:16

I remember one of the things that came to me when I was going through this transition is that there's a version of me in the future. That is okay. There's a version of me that is in the future that, like, she's figured out everything, she has all the answers for me and I need to get to her. And so this thing came up to me about like me to her, her to me. She's saying to me, natalie, where I am standing right now. Everything has worked out, we figured things out and you're in the right place. You just need to come and meet me here and I made a commitment in that moment to her that I was going to do all the work, I was going to make sure that I got to her Right. And it was me to her, her to me destiny calling. And so I had this thing. Of that there's more, there is a, there's a better version of me, there's a place where the things that are like not okay today are going to be okay at some point. And those were the things that again, but it it took work.

Speaker 2: 16:18

I hate when I not that I hate, but like when I share this story or I share my story. It might come across easy, but I want people to know it's not easy. It's tears, it's you're losing people in your life. People don't understand you, like. There's a lot of work to truly stand in the fullness of who you are and becoming the best version of yourself. That became.

Speaker 2: 16:35

I was journaling, I was going to therapy, I was being vulnerable with people because I'm a strong person. People look at me and I'm a strong person. I'm a leader in my own right and again, all the things that I've done. So people look at you and go, oh you strong, you have it going on and I had to start to be vulnerable to say I can't be the caretaker for the family anymore, I can't be the nurturer anymore, I don't have all the answers for everyone. You're going to have to stand in your own place so that I can become truly strong so I can help you. So it's like it's really a lot of work and it's ongoing work. It's honest work that starts with you being honest with the person in the mirror.

Speaker 1: 17:14

Wow. I just want to emphasize to everyone listening this is very hard work, this is. It sounds so easy, but it's hard. It's like you know, you eat the orange and you turn the inside out and you know it's. You know, sometimes you're you're, you're not even proud of what you see when you are in those moments, in seclusion with God, and you get the revelations about the things that you've been trying to prove or the things that, like you said earlier, you know, move far away from okay, all right now I'm not a teenage mom, I'm this. You know. You start to realize that you've sometimes you've been building things on a shaky foundation and now you have to find a new foundation, all of these things.

Speaker 1: 18:46

And so, as we start doing this work or anyone who's listening, who's interested in doing this work the first thing is your why, right, that's the first thing that you said. There's something else that you talked about, which is it's very broad, but I want us to come back to it. You know, you said God's purpose for your life. Boy, I tell you God's purpose of my life. It shifts for me personally, Like God said to this one minute, and then I was telling someone else this, like this is the assignment, and then the assignment shifts. So what would you say to someone who said, well, I don't know God's purpose in my life. How do I even find that out?

Speaker 2: 19:34

Yeah, something you just said. As you were asking the question, the first thing that popped into my head is that the purpose is different from the assignment. So your assignment can change, the way you show up in, your purpose can change, right, but at the core you're still doing the same thing. So, as an example, I think people think that I thought this too, that this purpose was this big thing. I had to do this big, huge thing. It was going to be so big. The whole world would know. The skies would open up and be like ah, you know, that's not it.

Speaker 2: 20:04

What gifts have you been given? I say this to my students I've done, like you know, I've done women's group and I've done my coaching business, and I remember I always say to them what are the things that naturally come to you? Naturally, you might go to work and everybody wants to come and talk to you and you give them a word of encouragement, right? You might be the person who has the gift of gab, right? Like, think about. Like, just take a pause and think about what is that? You do naturally when you think about the thing that you can do all day long and get lost in it and it doesn't even feel like work, and I know people say like, oh, if you find a thing that you love, you never have to work a day in your life. You got to work hard when you find that thing right. So it's not completely true, but the essence of it is it just flows out of you, it's effortless. And when you start to find that you're doing things effortless, you might be just like, oh, I like to see people learn, and so you end up teaching, you don't. You take the student who no one else wants to teach, and you'll have the patience to walk them through it Right. And then you're like that's your purpose. Your purpose is to help people to understand big things in their own way. So I think people are looking for, oh, this great thing about my purpose. It's what do you do naturally? What has God given you in your hands? You know he said to Jeremiah what is in your hand right? So what is already in your hand? What do you do naturally? If you're a homemaker and you are a good cook, you can cook right, which means you're feeding your family, you're feeding them, you're making them comfortable. That just might be your gift. You know God has given you the gift of creativity and you're able to cook. So now you cook at church. When they need to have a potluck, who they call into the mac and cheese, that could just be.

Speaker 2: 21:48

Your purpose is to bring comfort into other people's life. We're all here, fitly framed together, for a thing we can't all be the sun, then who's going to be the moon? Who's going to be the earth? Who's going to be the tree? Every part has its own function and no function is bigger than the other. So when you think about your purpose, just think about who you are and what you do. Right, no one else can be you. We're trying to be everybody else but our true selves, and when we start to be our true selves, our purpose will just shine. You wouldn't have to ask, like, what your purpose is, it will just be there.

Speaker 1: 22:20

All right. So this is a good segue into the initial topic that I wanted to talk to you about. Right, you know purpose and leadership, right Initial reactions on those two words, how we interpret them, and what do you think of when you think of purpose and leadership?

Speaker 2: 22:44

So I think purpose and leadership, you could say they're not the same thing, right? They're kind of like two separate concepts that work well together. Right? If your purpose is to lead, then lead. If your purpose is to follow, then follow, right? So, like, you have to figure out, like, where do I fit? In the grand scheme of things? There's something and I don't know why I'm going all into the Bible. That was not my intention when I prepared for this, but it says that one plants, one waters and one harvest. Right, going back to purpose, everyone has their job. So I think it's difficult, like, what is my job? That's it. What do I need to do Now when it comes to leadership?

Speaker 2: 23:23

Leadership, the way we've always thought about it in the realms of corporate, it's position of power or some sort of title. Title doesn't mean purpose. You can slap a title on anyone. You've given them a position that they're not fit for. You've given them a position that they're not the right person, it's true. So you can give a person a title, but that don't mean that what is in them can actually bring that thing to pass.

Speaker 2: 23:42

You've seen people being given CEO positions and in three months they're no longer in the position because you gave them the title, but they didn't have what was needed to bring the business, or whatever it is, where it needed to go.

Speaker 2: 23:54

So I believe that if you're in the right place, then we talk about what leadership really should be right, and a simple definition of what leadership is is where you can take people from where they are to where they need to be or want to be and make sure that they're enjoying themselves along the way. So, which means you're not pushing them, you're not challenging them, but you're not pushing them. You're not a dictator, because it's really about people challenging them, but you're not pushing them. You're not a dictator because it's really about people. Leadership is about serving people right, and so you're helping serve another person's purpose by being a leader. So if I were to put them together, it's not like, oh, your purpose ends up being a leader, no, it's as a leader, you're helping other people to fulfill their own purpose because you're getting them to where they need to be.

Speaker 1: 24:37

Yes, and I think the call out of what you said was it's important for us to understand that leadership means different things in certain different contexts. In work it means another thing, but we all carry this sense of this essence of leadership, even if we don't have a title right. So I am not the CEO of my company, I'm not the manager or senior VP of anyone, but within us, as you said, like I am guiding my colleague to get this thing done right or whatever it is. So talk to me about the mindset shift right, especially for you know our audience is Caribbean, american that mindset shift of thinking of leadership, of just position of power, versus where you I like that definition where leadership is, how are you helping others You're in that you know. To use another term that's often overused and also often misunderstood servant leadership. How does this show up in our day to day? And what mindset shift for anyone who's still having trouble recognizing this personal definition of leadership.

Speaker 2: 25:51

You said earlier, you're not the CEO of your company, but you're the CEO of you. It starts with leading yourself, right, and so the question is where do you want to go? Can you see a vision of where you are supposed to be in the future for your life? And I'm the Thrive Mindset Coach, and so for me, everything kind of lands on how are you thinking and how are you seeing things? Right, because, as a man thinketh, so is he right. And whatever is happening in our mind is going to start to shape our reality. Right, because how is this, as a man think it? So is he right. And whatever is happening in our mind is going to start to shape our reality. Right, the mindset shift becomes start with where you have the most control, which is over yourself. Right, so you know your leader.

Speaker 2: 26:30

If you're a mother, if you're a daughter, like whatever, again, the basics of who you are. Right. You could be a teenager. Right, it could be somebody watching this with their child, or like there's a teenager or someone who is not yet even in the working world, and they're like, oh, but I can't be a leader until I get to corporate, which is not true. I'd say this if you look at the playground, right, you can kind of see who the leaders are early, right, those who are born to be leaders. Because to be leaders? Because if you look at the kids on the playground, there's going to be this one kid who starts to do something and move in a direction and everyone starts to follow them and then they become the leader of the pack. They didn't even try to do it and so, even if we go back to those times and we're not trying to like, please, anyone, prove to ourself anything, and those kids on the playground who end up being the natural leaders is because they're being themselves, right.

Speaker 2: 27:16

So, really, when you think about the mindset shift is to like, how do I lead my own life and how do I become the example of who I want to be? When I go to church, when I go to work, when I'm with my friends, I think is how the mindset shift starts to happen in our lives, or like, that's how it happened for me anyways. And so when I think about leading my life, it's being intentional, right, it's again having vision for my life, being intentional about what I'm doing, right, doing what I said I was going to do, so being committed to what I'm supposed to be doing right and so building the characteristics in me which are really just the qualities of leadership. Because, listen, not everyone's going to be a good leader, not everyone is called to lead either. Right, in those very big positions where you have big, you have responsibility.

Speaker 2: 28:04

I always say leadership is responsibility, it's not rank. The higher you go, the more things you become responsible for, you become accountable for. So I'm not sure why people chase some of these things. You know how much responsibility it is to why people chase them these days. I'm like you know how much responsibility it is to be a leader in these places.

Speaker 1: 28:22

I'm going to interject a Jamaican proverb the higher the monkey climb, the more exposed.

Speaker 2: 28:28

Exactly so, like in my mind. I'm just like, why is everyone like, even like at church? I'm like, why does everyone want a title in church? I'm like you know how much, you know how much responsibility that is to God for his people. I'm like y'all need to slow down. It's a responsibility, right, and so it really comes to.

Speaker 2: 28:45

So shifting your mindset is building the characteristics of leadership in your own life, in your own home, right? How are you leading If you have little brothers and sisters? Like when people look at you, do they want to follow what you're doing? Would they want to emulate you, and is it a good thing for them? So it's really recognized that, like, before you get a title, you have to be the person and like even in, like. So in my old organizations that I worked in, you know, coming from Jamaica, so talk about Caribbean Jamaicans and leadership right In Jamaica, you work hard. Somebody says, hey, you work hard and you get promoted, you get more money. That's how you go up the ladder, right. That's how, when I was there, you work hard, not in America, not in America.

Speaker 1: 29:32

Yes, that is why I started this podcast, because it was this seismic shift in meritocracy you work hard and so you have a merit, you get your entitlement. You know in America, no, I'm not saying work Me, I have to go over here, go friend up, natalie, and you know, work the relationships you know. For me, natalie Putina, good work Like and I'm simplifying it it's a little bit layered and depending on industry and company, but boy, what a shift it was. That was one of the key things why I started this podcast 10 years ago.

Speaker 2: 30:11

Because of that shift, and it's a shift. So I came here like 14, 15 years ago. So I worked in Jamaica. I had a whole life in Jamaica before I packed everything up to come to America in search of this better life. And so the question is, and so I was saying in my old job, you had to be showing them that you were already at the next level to be promoted. So you didn't get promoted just because you're done well at the level you were at Right, just because you're done well at the level you were at right. And so, even as we think about leadership, it's like how do you continue to like, have personal development? How are you growing? How are you showing that you are ready for the next level? So, before you want the title, walk it out. Walk it out and be the person. So when the title come, it's just an affirmation and a validation of who you already are Right.

Speaker 2: 30:58

And there's so many ways that we can build the characteristics I said, like it's in our homes, it's in our communities, it's in our friendships. I'll be the one to say to my friends, like, listen, all y'all, you keep talking about the goals you want, you want the soft life. I remember a few months ago, I said, like, let's go to the park, bring some ice cream and bring your journals. We're going to start doing some planning because I can't be the only one who is doing all this inner work. And I'm going and like, I'm, like, I'm going to go, and I know for a fact I'm going to leave them behind. If, like, if I keep growing, I'm going to outgrow them. It's not a matter that I don't love them anymore, but it means that where I'm at, I can't connect with you at the same level anymore. And then you have, oh, you think you're better than me, and all that, which is like, you know what? I want to take you with me. And so it's like, let's go to the park and we talked about life and we talked about things and we journaled and we made plans and we, you know, we were doing all of those things.

Speaker 2: 31:50

And so leadership, again, is not about titles. It's about being able to see the future in some way shape, or it's about being able to see the future in some way shape or form. You don't have to have been there, have done that, but you are willing to look beyond your present situation, because leaders are visionaries, leaders are strategic. Leaders are problem solvers. You know what, like most people who are like from poverty, you are already leaders.

Speaker 2: 32:13

When your mother can figure out how to make spam go 10 ways to Sunday, when your mother can make that hard-o'-bread last for however long right, you know, got your bed hungry or anything when your mother can make it, she was showing the qualities of leadership. And so I think the mindset shift is to really break these very big concepts down to things that we can understand, make them really practical, and that way, when you're thinking, oh, am I a leader or not? If you took care of your little brothers and sisters when your mother had to go to work, you were a leader. And so taking those experiences and saying, ok, what did I have to do to keep them in line a little bit, right, what did you learn from that? And don't just put the small things aside. Oh yeah, I was just babysitting for a little bit. It's not easy to babysit anybody, right?

Speaker 2: 33:04

And so the mindset shift, as we come back to the question, is really about breaking the concept down and seeing yourself there and saying what kind of leader do I want to be?

Speaker 2: 33:13

Like I used to say to people and I said this to my manager I don't want to manage people, because I understand the weight of managing people. I understand when I make a decision at work it affects them in their lives, in your children's life, in their family. They go home, they can't sleep. I've seen and heard and I've mentored people, so I get it and so I've never wanted to be a people manager. So my way of leading is I'll be an IC, an individual contributor, I will lead business objectives and I will lead processes and I'm just like that's the kind of leader I want to be. Now that's not my calling, so you know it doesn't work that way, but that's what I've always said, because I will choose the way I want to show up as a leader and not force myself into spaces and places before I am ready, qualified and equipped to do the job well.

Speaker 1: 34:01

So I keep wanting to come back to this work environment. So let's focus there, and I want us to dig a little bit deeper on how we show up at work and what does that look like? Because you know a lot of people. They get their epiphanies or a realization while doing work. Right, they either come to a realization that you know what this is not. It is not for me. I need to be a social worker. I don't know, I'm just throwing stuff out there. So, when you look at the dissatisfaction people are experiencing at work, what's one of the first things that you I mean other than what's your why? And some people, why could simply mean I need to pay my bill, I'm a mortgage, I'm a rent, right? So what's the one thing you would say to someone who I'm not happy at my job? And for them to start pulling on the different threads to find out why. To get to where you were when you knew that if the layoffs come, you are going to take the layoff.

Speaker 2: 35:06

I think it's taking risks right and being open to change. So, first of all, let's take a step back, if you're on. Sometimes we're unfulfilled in our jobs because it's not because we don't love our jobs and we're not in the right place, like there's just a whole bunch of stuff happening, right. Sometimes we're unhappy in our lives or we're unhappy in our lives, we end up having jobs. We need to figure out, like what is happening? Do a bad manager? Are you in a toxic environment? Like we need to. We need to ask ourselves these questions. Like you ask yourself are you in a toxic environment? And it's just not good for you, right? I remember hearing someone say the other day at a session I was at is that for the first time in her career, she got like the lowest grade she could get, right and that had left her like self-doubt and all of these things were rising up in her. And, luckily for her, she went and she spoke to someone and they're like oh no, it's not you, it's that manager. You have the wrong manager, right? So I think it's spending time to do that investigation, but that only happens if you've done all the other work. So let's go back a little bit about the transition from like working in Jamaica, you work out and get to work and you, america, you work at them, get to work and you make it and you grow the ladder and you go up there and you know you're in America. In America that there's a different system. You have to think about like, what's your, the concept of like, what is your brand Right, what is your brand? And you have to always be thinking about like, what do I want to be known for? Right, and you have to always be trying to like, build your brand while you're there. So the question is is it the job that you're doing that is no longer challenging you, that's causing you to be frustrated? Is it the environment? Is this not the right environment for you? So, like, you have to answer those questions and you need to have the people around you that can help you to answer the questions too, because you're going to have blind spots, right, and we don't like I think you said it earlier too about like, because you talk up to the boss and you're like there's a person and there's a person, you're a friend, and all of this stuff that can make or break us, cause we I I'm going to talk for myself.

Speaker 2: 36:58

I came to America and I was just like when I lived in Jamaica I don't, I'm going to use a nice one, I don't brown nose, right, I'm not a American friend. So when I was in Jamaica, when the first time I got laid off, I was like, well, if you know, if I'm not going to be the best friend and she doesn't know my business, and if I don't take the work, then I'm not going to take the work. I'm going to tell you as it is. I was a different person, right, I was like I'll tell you as it is. You know, you cannot was me in Jamaica. So I came here and I was just like me, not network with nobody, because you know networking is not for me.

Speaker 1: 37:35

And wait, if network isn't one thing, the other thing that I've seen and this is part of things that we I've covered too is me no one the organized play date me no one go to hang out with no core after thing. So that's another one where, ooh, they might have events where me no want go, me no like that Right.

Speaker 2: 37:55

So really we have like you're shooting yourself. Okay Listen, I was on an event the other day and I said it's a game. For the longest time I did not want to play the game because I'm like that is not who I am, this is not who I want to be. I'm not going to play this game because, again, come from Jamaica, I'm going to have a round nose. I'm not doing it, but that hurt me in the early parts of my career and it took me a long time to figure those things out. So it hurts, right.

Speaker 2: 38:20

And this is where it comes to like you have to put the alignment in and understand why you're doing something and being willing to know what your boundaries are. So, and there's something you said earlier that I want to kind of go back to, as I'm in this space is sometimes the reason why we don't go for more is our own insecurities. So we'll say the other day I heard God say to me Leslie, stop playing small. I came off of a call with somebody. They reached out to me for something and when I came off the call it says stop playing small. Because I was hiding away. So sometimes we don't want to network because we think, oh, my accent is going to throw me off that used to happen to me. Or I don't know what I'm going to say to these people. Like I don't even, I don't fit in here. Like you're telling yourself all these things in your head, I don't fit in. You know, they don't look like me, they won't understand me. Like I don't know what I'm going to say, like, and so we need to get a little bit over ourselves. I know it's hard. Get over ourselves to say this is why the inner work before and the personal development is important. Because you're like I have something to offer. I am going to insert myself into this conversation, even if it's just to listen and nod and be like whatever, right. So we need to be willing to step out of our comfort zones a little bit, stop playing small, step into the room and find out where we actually fit right. So networking is not all bad.

Speaker 2: 39:43

Don't go into the first time you go because, ooh, I want to leave this team and it's too late. If, when you need the bridge, you're trying to build it, it's too late, you're going to drown, it ain't going to happen. You could get lucky, right. So they need to kind of like build a network ahead of time, build their brand, build allyship. There's something called the personal boardroom. Have people like again, I start with you, there's the business of you have a personal boardroom, people that you can go to to say, hey, tell me if it's me, tell me where I'm falling short and when you have done all and if there's so much that you need to do. This is why I come, come and I'll help you, to help you through it. But there's so much that you need to do. But when you you get to the root cause of the problem, then you can make a decision.

Speaker 2: 40:29

So I'm dissatisfied because my manager isn't the right manager for me and so what I need to do is find another role in this company. Or it is that this work doesn't challenge me anymore. Maybe I need to ask my manager for some more challenging work. Maybe it is that I am just frustrated because all the things happening in my life how can I upskill? Maybe I can learn better communication skills. So what do I need to change about me to be able to better show up in this space? So it's not always an easy. Oh, I'm well-loved up, but we're going to lift the job right and all we do is take the bad behavior and the issues that we did not deal with from one job to the next job. You ever hear them people that way every job. Them go something wrong with the place where them work. Like everywhere we go, I do people them problem. I feel them reason why it no workouts.

Speaker 1: 41:24

It isn't always them, it's true. But there's something else that I wanted to come back to. So I definitely know that you know, everywhere you go, it's about your brand, your brand externally, your brand internally, your brand across. How much of this brand identity impacts you? So when you think so, I'm asking you this question did this branding of yourself impact, how you eventually saw yourself, Like you brand yourself to the point where I'm not even if I recognize myself anymore, Like how you balance that? Because at some point you had to brand yourself because you needed to survive and thrive and other people didn't work.

Speaker 1: 42:07

But sometimes you feel like, boy, I'm so on brand at work that sometimes there's a gap, there's a disconnect, where you now have to start audit yourself and say, okay, this is work, Carrie, this is another Carrie and it don't really, it's not jiving. And that's kind of where you know. Maybe you had started to say like, yeah, I was driving towards this accolade, not accolade, but you know this goal you're not. You weren't necessarily enjoying the successes, because sometimes the brand at work, or the your business brand, your entrepreneur brand, is now becomes the main foundation, as opposed to just being a brand, just the messaging. So talk to me a little bit about like was that an experience you have? And when we have that, to use your tech word, when we have that scope creep, you know, when we check ourselves, I say, hey, my girl, I just the word brand, that's. You know it's not you. I know what God tell us if it breaks up, my girl, so you know.

Speaker 2: 43:13

Talk to me a little bit about um, that's a really interesting point and and the thing about it is with the branding is your brand is not your identity necessarily, right? So I think, again, this is where it kind of comes in, like your brand is not your whole identity. And I think that's what probably makes our breaks that people get laid off because your job was your identity. So your brand is not necessarily the job. So my brand at work was getting things done, which means, no matter what you give me where I am, I'm going to get things done. I could be put on a project and it's a gnarly horrible nobody wants to look at it project and you give it to me. I'm going to dig into that beast, I'm going to come back out. It's going to take me some 12-hour days, some 14-hour days. I'll be sending emails at 1 am, but in a few days everyone will have clarity on that project. So I'm the person who can take big picture gnarly information and I can break it down and figure out how are we going to solve this, how are we going to get out of this, how are we going to make this work? And so my brand at work luckily for me, because I think somewhere in Jamaica was probably very helpful, right, my cultural background was helpful. Right, it hurt, but it was also helpful because I remember saying to my managers every time I would have a new manager and you had to do the introduction and they had to get to know you, I said, listen, I like to do good work and I want to be appreciated for the work I do. I want to be acknowledged and I want to be rewarded. I don't do things to be acknowledged and to be rewarded. I don't. I'm very clear to them that, like, I'm just going to do a very good job. That's just me. Do good work, right, because I need that. Pay me good, treat me good, but I'm not the person on the team who wants to be visible just because and so that was something that within me that I was very clear on from the beginning it's not me. So that cultural thing kind of helped right.

Speaker 2: 45:08

Again, it did hurt sometimes because I remember once I went, my manager came to me and I was like I want to get promoted and like because those things are so important, and he said to me there's this project and I was like, but I don't want to work on that, like, I don't want to do that Right Because, again, it didn't align with me and my brand and the things I was interested in, and it hurt me but I was like I don't want to do it. And so I think for me on brand it's it starts with like knowing why you want to do something and be at least be happy integrally when you get there, right? So you know, I don't want to be the person who get there and I have to question how I got there, right, that don't sit right in my spirit. So the thing is, when you develop your brand, it has to be a reflection of you, but it's not completely who you are, and so you also have to have those boundaries.

Speaker 2: 45:59

Like I said, there were many projects I did not take on, again to my own detriment, right. Maybe that's why I got laid off, but I was just like I don't want to do that, right. And so that's what I would say about like one year job is not your identity and when you think about your brand is to separate what you do and how you do it well from where you do it, and you can take and do it anywhere. And the other thing I would say that really comes to mind when I think about this brand and who you said like the carry at work and the carry here and the carry there. It's about like there's this level of fragmentation that happens to us as Black people.

Speaker 1: 46:34

No, no, and I just I can't speak for every Black person, but I've said this on the podcast before, because the very thing that you're talking about is exactly why I started this podcast, and I talk about being confidently Caribbean at work. Listen, Natalie, you know. So we have judging clothes, we have gold clothes, we have church clothes, we have school uniform, and none of them don't mix right you and your mother body up like yo, where you at, where you have good clothes, Like they don't mix.

Speaker 1: 47:05

We're very boxy, like, and the box them don't touch. And you know, like you, I learned very early like, yeah, some of them boxy, are going to blend in a little bit, right. So this idea of you know, fragmentation, yeah, hurts us culturally because you know, but it has its benefits. So I just wanted to interject, finish your thought there. But, yes, yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 47:29

So we're fragmented. So there's this concept of like whether you can bring your whole self to work and whether you should right, you know some of it can't see all our work true, true, but I think it's.

Speaker 2: 47:40

What we should be doing is not trying to, like, only bring a certain part of us into the organization, or a part of us. The church is what. What part of us is most valuable at church? What part of you is most valuable at work? Right, and so it's not about, like you're, you're saying this part is untouchable at work.

Speaker 1: 48:01

It's biblical there's a time and place for everything under the sun. Right Biblical there's a time and place for everything under the sun.

Speaker 2: 48:07

True, yes, it is biblical, so that's why it goes back to the value Time and place. If you're in church, it's not the time to be telling the pastor. You said a word wrong just now. It ain't the time, so is that even valuable to tell him that?

Speaker 1: 48:21

No, it's not valuable either. No, that is adding wisdom. There's a time and place and use your wisdom.

Speaker 2: 48:29

Yes, However, you know what I did recently. So you talk about going out clothes and whatever. Going back to, I said I changed out my wardrobe. I now what I called outside inside clothes. That's what I call it. I buy the clothes that I would wear outside the house and I wear them inside the house. Why am I need for a little pop down in a the house? Why? Why me need for have on one tear up t-shirt? Why me need for look pop down in a my house? Where would I come from? Jamaica? Exactly Because what we used to do and this is what you think about when you go back to the mindset what used to happen is you'd have the good clothes but me't have enough money.

Speaker 2: 49:06

So them now buy new clothes for yard and clothes to go to road. When the church truck mash up, them, tear off the sleeve and you wait in the yard right when the pants start get too old. So the thing is like this scarcity mindset that we were in created these fragmentations in our lives without we realize. You have to go panting in the out panty and you have some clean panty in case of like sorry underwear, because we on the people on internet like underwear for when you get taken to a hospital and we're not, we're not touch the glass. So what is it? Because your mother have a brick front full of glass that never use it when it did, and then my fight or fight like why, why do we do these things? And that was like wait, wait on, why am I waiting for a special occasion to wear my clothes? Who told me that? Right, and so the fragmentation comes from a little bit of our scarcity and not understanding that you are whole. Don't fragment yourself, but what is most valuable at this time in this space, and how do you show up as you're the best version of yourself.

Speaker 2: 50:07

So what I did like, for example, I like to cook and I like to, like you know, be creative with my food. I make Jamaican Christmas cake. I make it at work. Them love it Every year. One of my old co-workers. I would give her a personal size cake. She's from India and I give her a personal size cake because I am like what parts of me are most valuable to building relationship with my team? Right, what are the parts of me that I can freely bring, because some things you can't freely bring.

Speaker 2: 50:38

So, like my faith was a different situation. I wasn't going to go to talk about Jesus every day. It doesn't work, as you said, a time and a place for everything. But there were times when people were like so you know why are you always like this? And I'm like, you know, it's my faith and so I find ways. I'm not going to hide it, because that's who I am.

Speaker 2: 50:56

What did you do this weekend? Oh, so you know, yeah, I went to church because I'm not going to the party. I wasn't at the endless brunch. I mean, I didn't go to wherever they went, and so why should I be uncomfortable? Because to make you comfortable, right. And so there really comes to a place where, again and it's not easy, I didn't, I didn't always, I was always like this, and some days I'm just like these people talking about them pizza, them pizza oven and them where them went with them kids and like, excuse me, I was in my house doing nothing Because, right, but I had to get to a place where, when it made sense again, when does it make sense? When is it most valuable? When do I just need to be in listen mode and learn from the rich people then and go? Oh, so the rich people then live. That's so nice. Oh, my God, tell me more, so I can learn.

Speaker 1: 51:50

You know what I love about this conversation it's a full circle moment of 10 years ago. This is the frustrations of work, and over the years I've had many episodes kind of having the conversation you're having now, but with other people, and to hear you applying it. I know the audience don't think I was crazy, but hearing somebody else different paths, going through a similar journey of revelation, right, because in Confidently Caribbean, I'm like what are the things about our culture that hurts us and that creates blind spots? You said exactly that. What are the things that we are aware of about ourselves that we might need to, we need to change the tune in on this, and what are the things that, like you said, like we shouldn't downplay?

Speaker 1: 52:46

And I know that we have a privilege, um, because we are jamaican or we just we, just, we just we're different, we just show up different and I had to recognize that, um, that's a privilege and and and coming at it that way, not many people have the same level of braggadocio with us, with us born with, you know it just with us in the dna right and also, I'm not sure where you are, but I'm, as a new yorker, have that privilege compared to somebody else who may be in another state, who may not feel as comfortable. You know I show up like beaches. Well, not figuratively, they do. You know I show up like beaches Well, not figuratively, but mentally we're walking on beach. You know what I mean and so.

Speaker 1: 53:35

But what I love about this is merging everything that we're talking about how we think of our purpose, god's intent for our lives, how we show up to work, because they may seem like disparate things that we're talking about, but they all impact. All of that come from we, right? You know it's impacting the person, and so, as we think of you know, as we wrap up, how would you put this in a bowl? We talked about how we think of our success and our failures, our identities, what we are putting as foundation, as our identities and personal leadership. Right, which is what you are talking about. Leadership at work is one thing, but our personal leadership as it applies to our own individual purpose and how we help other people, so wrap that up in a bow for us. Anything you never tell. We just let we know, let the people them know what you do and where they can find you, because we can always go on for this because labrish is also in our DNA as Jamaicans, and it's not all of us.

Speaker 2: 54:43

Some of us, some of us more than others. Like I said, some of us have the gift of gab, but, um, and it's not all of us. Some of us, some of us more than others. Like I said, some of us have the gift of gab, um, but you know it's interesting that you've talked about the full circle moments, um, and the reason why you started this podcast, and I think people need to be willing to keep at it, like most people would have given up by now, right, and so there's this resilience that we have because of where we're coming from, that can make us do things that nobody else can. Right, it's playing to our own strengths. Most people would have given up. Most businesses fail in the first three to five. I've given up on my own dreams over the years and I think that's some of the things that I think I started to recognize because, when we're there in Jamaica, I started to recognize because when we were there in Jamaica, me a comb, the boy them ear, me a caner ear, me a sell cassette, like business minded, because we're off to make it, anyway, we take it. And then I came here and I realized like something in me was off because I wasn't. I was no longer dreaming, I was no longer thinking Like.

Speaker 2: 55:44

I heard someone say this the best way recently that your lived experience is your secret sauce. Right, your lived experience. That's not the way they said it, but that's what I'm going to give it to you. Your lived experience is your secret sauce. As a Caribbean American, your lived experience, who you are, your culture, everything that you've grown up with, this diversity and inclusion that everyone is talking about. You're a part of that Diversity and inclusion is not to find a place to put you. It's that your voice can make a change in this world. So it's up to us to really do the work to show up and show out, because there's something inside of you, no matter how big or how small it is.

Speaker 2: 56:32

And so my thing is to encourage you to be braggadocious, to be audacious, braggadocious and audacious in whatever little way. You know, like going to the Bible, there was a woman that all she had was a small mite. She didn't have a lot, but she gave all that she had. So I would say, like, no matter where life takes you, no matter where you're starting from, don't get to the point where you're so like it's too small to be important, because that's not true. Your little is needed by somebody. Somebody need your little, right? Somebody in the office is going to need what you have, someone in your neighborhood is going to need what you have. And so start where you can, without the title, without the Wally Park accolades, and you know the best part of leadership is doing it when nobody can't see you, right, nobody can't see you. Just show up as the best version of yourself. Show up and show out and watch how everything around you start to look like the leader that is already on the inside of you. That's what I would say to people.

Speaker 1: 57:34

Hallelujah. No, that was wonderfully said. Everything that you said in that is so apropos for the moment, where it doesn't matter how little you think you have. It is valuable to someone else Always. If you don't think it's valuable, it's because you don't meet the person who need the value from it, and that's just the beauty of it. So why don't you tell everybody where they could find you, connect with you and all of these things?

Speaker 2: 58:09

So you can find me on all socials at I am Natalie Bennett, so my name right, my brother knows just with it, I am Natalie Bennett. My website is thethrivemindsetcoachcom. I'm also at LinkedIn. Even on LinkedIn is I am Natalie Bennett. Instagram, instagram, tiktok, all over the place X. Anywhere you look for me, I am nataliebennettcom.

Speaker 2: 58:33

I have programs. I have personal coaching programs. I have workshops on financial wellness and personal development. I don't know when this can come up, but still look me up. I'm sure I'll have something to be able to help you I'll have. I have free resources on my website. I'm always trying to give free advice. I do a 30 minute consultation with people. It's for free. We can have conversations. I also have like mentorship that I do, so I'll put a certain number of hours on my calendar every month, every six weeks or so, where, if you just want to pick out my brain, my brain, because people like to do that, right, and so I also make myself available for mentorship If you have any questions, let's reach out and we'll see how we can connect from there.

Speaker 1: 59:14

Wonderful. Well, natalie, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, for sharing your wisdom and your experiences, because the wisdom come from the experiences and, as I love to say at the end of every episode, walk good.

Speaker 2: 59:29

Okay, and I want to say to you congratulations of 10 years of the Carry On Friends podcast and I can't wait to see and hear about all the amazing things that you will continue to do.

Speaker 1: 59:40

Thank you, I appreciate that. Bye Bye, bye, bye.