Speaker 1: 0:03

Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Carry On Friends the Caribbean American experience. I am so excited, well, excited. I kind of said that for all the guests, but it's because I truly mean it. I am particularly excited to have Malaney Barnett on the podcast. Malaney is big bad artist running place no, not dance hall artist, but the original type of artist. So, Maleni, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:28

Thank you, Kerri-Ann. I am super excited to talk to you today.

Speaker 1: 0:33

Oh, wow. So why don't you tell the community of friends a little bit about who you are, Caribbean countries you represent and the work that you do?

Speaker 2: 0:42

Sure. Well, I am a multidisciplinary artist, a textile designer, community builder and now author of the book Crafted Kinship Inside the Creative Practices of Contemporary Black Caribbean Makers. My mother is from St Vincent and the Grenadines and my father is Jamaican. I am based in Brooklyn, new York, but I grew up in a small town called Norwalk, connecticut.

Speaker 1: 1:05

Malini, I'm so excited to talk to you on so many levels. I have notes upon notes, like in a previous lifetime I worked with a textile designer and her designs used to be at Knoll Designs and she did, yes, my dear and I was there, knowing Weft and Warp, and they had a lube in the studio back in 1999. Nobody aged myself and they work on quark for the patterns and all of these things, and then we also. They worked with Prince Street and Bentley for carpet, and so yes, I know all them places.

Speaker 2: 1:41

I know all of that yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:42

Yes, my dear, I'm going to call the lady and I'm going to tell her off the ear. As soon as I said textile, I remember I was like, oh, I did this. But it was a fun experience for me because I remember for the carpet, when the palms used to come in because it was woven, so we had to look at the color, sometimes the black, and that's when I learned when black has too much red in it and if the dye lots are different, one have too much yellow, too much red.

Speaker 1: 2:10

I was like, look at me with skills.

Speaker 2: 2:15

Oh, my goodness, that, yes, you, yes. That is so funny. I mean, even though I went to FIT studying textile design and that's where I discovered rug design, I didn't even know it was a profession. I said, well, I could do this, make money, like I could draw paint and make these images and turn them into, you know, objects that people, many people can experience. So, yes, it's still my love, I still love designing rugs.

Speaker 1: 2:39

Listen, I came up with a database to help this woman make sure she get her royalties and they were royalties for the sales. So I'm like, but we're not talking about that person, we're talking about you. So Vinci Yadi Heritage In your Bones. Let's start off with tell me the first time you fell in love with being an artist using your hands. I think you use your hands in some things designing. Tell me, what was that first experience where you're just like I love this. I want to do this?

Speaker 2: 3:15

Well, you know, it's interesting, I've been drawing ever since I was eight years old. You know, I got selected for an artistically talented program and we would draw and paint on a weekly basis and that's when I really started to connect with the materials, right, and I would love to draw. I love to draw portraits, so I would draw my friends. I draw my cousin who was living with me at the time, my baby cousin. But check this out, it wasn't until I was an adult and I started looking at my paintings from childhood and I saw how I said wait, all the skin tones are of white people, right, and I'm a dark brown girl. And my baby cousin, he was darker than me. So, but what I realized was, back in that day, our teacher, she only taught us how to mix skin tones up to a certain shade, and so I wasn't even allowed to mix anything darker than a certain shade of brown. And so all my portraits were, you know, of my white female friends at the time, and then I even had to change my cousin to look like a white baby baby. But you know, even though that experience inspired my work, my studio practice now I always loved to create and portraiture still lives. I used to draw still lives of fabric just because I love the folds and how, the way the light would hit it, not realizing later in my career that I would be designing fabrics Right.

Speaker 2: 4:49

So I studied painting and photography at SUNY Purchase. So when it was time for college I had a very supportive art teacher May she rest in peace. She passed away last year, but she was super supportive of my work and she made sure we had our portfolio ready. She, back in the day, was photographing our work via slides. There was no digital cameras and nothing like that. But when it was time for art school she was like you're going to go to art school? It wasn't like a question, like, are you going to go to art school? And so then of course I did, and I went to SUNY Purchase, studied painting and photography for two years. It wasn't enough for me. So then I transferred to FIT, studied fashion illustration, later on got the bachelor's in textile design and that's when I knew I found my love for making objects.

Speaker 1: 5:36

Yeah, Wow, wow. I really love that story because for the last couple of years I've I don't want to say obsessed, but I've been obsessing with baby Carrie, because there's this innocence and freedom that I felt I had at that young age. And I go back to what everyone would comment and say is peculiar, like, oh, you know, that's just Carrie, she loves chat All these things. And you know, like those, just Carrie, she loves chat, all these things. And you know, like those were early glimpses of things that we come to enjoy. So in hearing that story I feel the same way, like we innocently were doing things, but it was really what was already placed in us to do. We just needed to be nurtured along the path.

Speaker 2: 6:22

Yeah, exactly, I mean. Listen, I come from a lineage of makers. My mother she used to make macrame wall hanging. She taught pottery. You know we need curtains, she made them. You need clothes she made them. My grandmother, my maternal grandmother she was also a fashion designer. My auntie same. So the making is just in my DNA. So it just made sense for me to just flourish in the art in the way that I have.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Wow. So now talk to me about what it was like growing up in a home where you had a Jamaican parent and a St Vincent parent. A lot of times, I have people on the podcast who are either oh, their parents come from one country, and so what was that like in terms of where all Caribbean and have similar things, but they're also very distinct things from each places. And maybe how did that influence your art or your maker gene?

Speaker 2: 7:16

Yeah, well, I'll tell you this. My parents divorced when I was five, right so, but I still saw my father on the weekends. He lived nearby. I was in the house again with my mother, my siblings, and I think the difference was and then I'm not to say the difference they both were very proud Caribbean people through the music, through the food, you know, and, to be honest, I didn't know. My parents were from the Caribbean when I was a kid and the only reason I started to figure this out it's funny is because people would come to me as a child, you know. People would come to me and say where's your mother from? I'm like, why are you asking me that? It's because she has an accent. Well, for me she didn't have an accent, daddy didn't have an accent.

Speaker 2: 7:59

Mommy didn't have an accent. That's just how they talk, and so I had to find out the answer one day, like mommy, why are people always asking me where you're from? But listen, they would play the soka, they played the reggae. My mother made bakes, made my rice and peas. You know, the food was always present in our upbringing and now, looking back, I see those are the things that she brought with her, you know, but my father would go to his house. He was an ital diet, you know Bob Marley and all the roots reggae, always on repeat. And the good thing is that we did stay connected to his side of the family, even though they were divorced, which is very rare. But as I got older, when I started to learn more and understand, like, oh, daddy is from Jamaica, oh, my Jamaican side of the family, there was always about the parties and the get togethers. They planned the family reunion so we would go to Jamaica.

Speaker 2: 8:57

When I was a child, on my mother's side, she was the anchor family where everyone came to her, because basically, my maternal grandmother migrated to the US and that's how my mother came, and her siblings, so all her siblings were here, and so our connection with St Vincent was very minimal and I only went there once as a child and that was the first time my mother had returned, back when I was 15, you know and so. But she took us down there, went to Grenada, went to Barbados, and I would make images on my disc. You remember the Kodak disc camera, so I had one of those and I would make images down there and I turned those images into paintings. Yeah, so I was already inspired by the landscape, because I remember the first time going and I was like, oh, wow, it's like black people everywhere. You know it was so colorful and I and I love the heat and sunshine. And you know, and you know, my uncle had a beautiful house and I was like, oh my God, you could have a house and a guest house like on the same property. I didn't experience that growing up. We just had one house and we grew up by the beach, but it was just one house and my uncle was a. He had a spice business and I always remember the packages that came to the house that smelled like spices up packets from Grenada, that's from Uncle Ben. So these are the memories that I had growing up, but now I could talk about them with pride.

Speaker 2: 10:26

I didn't know what that meant as a child, and I think it's kind of good, because then you don't see yourself as different. But it wasn't until, to be honest, high school is when you really started to see the difference, because, if you think about it, I'm dating myself. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and it was not cool to say you was from Jamaica. It was not cool to say you was from the Caribbean period, except when dancehall became a thing. Yes, the music changed it for all of us.

Speaker 1: 10:54

Yes, I came to the US right as that became a thing. So I came to the US in 93 and I walked around the school and you know, I was the kid fresh off the boat or fresh off the plane. And then they would be like, well, you come from Kinston. And then everybody was from Kinston, everybody was from Kinston. I was just like you all can't be from Kinston, this is not so. I came right as that became a thing and I can't even explain it. It was just like pride upon pride. And then the school I went to it's like all the Caribbean families who came into Brooklyn, landed in Flatbush and their kids went to this school. So even the teachers were Caribbean. I remember Ms Silvestro, the math teacher from Grenada, the Jamaican teachers. So it was for me it was a different experience because I just came from Jamaica, where it's only Jamaican teachers, only Jamaican students. And now you know there's this accent that, oh, that person is Trini.

Speaker 1: 11:55

I remember the first time I heard David Levy on the radio. I was like, oh yes, who is that? My mom said is he Jamaican? I said he don't, I don't, I don't think so. He kind of so, but I'm not sure. And then he was like he from Barbados. I was like, oh okay, yes. So that was like the culture shock for me. But you're right, you know the music made being Caribbean cool. So you have book out. Me love the book, everybody me love the book. The book pretty, it feel good. The texture of the book is just so nice. It is called Crafted Kinship, right Inside the Creative Practices of Contemporary Black Caribbean Makers. Now thank you for sending me this book. I've learned about so many artists just looking at this book and some of them said, oh, really nice artwork. And I made some notes because as I was flipping through it right.

Speaker 1: 13:07

So, I don't think it's a book where you sit and read through. For me it's been a book of inspiration. Just the concept of the book, as I told you, has inspired me. You know, because you have a collection of people and I'm like maybe I'm going to do something with that podcast too, right.

Speaker 1: 13:26

But one of the first things that stood out to me was Andrea Chung's response to the question what part of Caribbean identity or art practice do you think speaks to what is needed in the world right now? I think this is a common question you ask, but her response stood out to me. She talks about how other Black people look at the Caribbean as a source of inspiration. I was like, oh really. And then she gave a specific example of being in Mauritius and the impact of reggae there. And then she also talks about how, what is needed because of how the Caribbean is. She didn't have to explain her being, because you know it says well, if I mix up, don't do it, right. So nobody's never going to ask you like what are you that type of thing, right? We're not business, no-transcript inspired you.

Speaker 2: 14:43

All of the makers have inspired me and really have truly helped me think about my practice in a different way. This was a collaborative process because you have to think, kerianne, I started this book because it was what I was looking for when I was in grad school. I wanted to be in conversation with a group of makers who were already thinking about the Caribbean from these different perspectives and you know I created these themes of kinship in the book where it talks about the different ways of being. It has truly helped me to talk about my work in different ways and I know for many of the makers in the book, it actually also helped them to really think about their practice, because when you're in the studio making, you're in your own world, you're in your process, but then to have to talk about it out loud to other people, it makes you really think to your point why am I doing this? Is this important? How are these words going to inspire not only myself, but to the global community?

Speaker 1: 15:44

So yeah, Listen, I have like when I tell you like, because I was flipping through, because you know, my first pass at the book was just looking at pictures, that's what I kind of gravitate to. And then, once I've looked at the pictures, I was like, oh my God, these are like pretty, just go flipping through and reading. There was this other aspect by Amina Major that says cultural memory is our survival. And that really speaks to me, because when I first started the podcast, I kind of knew that there was an aspect of this new oral storytelling tradition that I told myself but I kind of said it but I didn't actually know what does that really mean for me or how am I living that out. But I knew it in my mind and now, 10 years in, I'm like it's a little bit more clear. So that really spoke to me when she said that, because this idea, like I think we take for granted that we always have culture and it will always be around and I've studied anthropology to know that no, it won't always be around if you aren't doing the things to ensure that it stays around and so that really spoke to me.

Speaker 1: 17:05

So in terms of the work of these artists, right when you think of this new generation of artists versus those you came up learning about? Right, eurocentric American, you know Caribbean Edna Manley Watson was one that I remember in the seventh grade in high school. Don't ask me, you know, but that's also what I appreciated about growing up in Jamaica. We had to do these art projects and do write-ups. So I'm appreciative that I can at least name two people. But when we think about you know like artists in this way, I appreciate that you do this book, because I can't say I would have known anything about any of these artists if you did not put this collection together. And it's not to say that they aren't there. And it's not to say that they aren't there, but it's the same thing with the podcast, Because information has proliferated. Where do you go now to get that information all assembled and given?

Speaker 2: 18:11

to you? Yeah, because that was part of the reason why I felt the book format is so important. Because, to your point, we have so many avenues from the internet, social media to find information, right, and we're constantly doing research and gathering piece from here. Save a post, do this, but when you have it in one envelope, right, it's something that you could constantly go back to to your point. It's not something where you have to start, constantly go back to to your point. It's not something where you have to start from the beginning and go to the end. You could start in the back, middle, the front, and guess what, 10 years from now, when you go back to that book, you're going to still learn from it. You're going to be inspired, right, there's going to be a new connection that's formed.

Speaker 2: 18:50

And so I feel, as Black people, especially a part of the diaspora, it's so important that we create these archival objects, because we are the generation who are going to. I think we'll be part of the first part of the generation that are going to be speaking the truth and filling in the gaps of our history. And so how do we do that? In multiple forms, and because we have access to so much now. We have no excuse not to make these archival objects and like how you're doing with your podcast, in a book, in a movie.

Speaker 2: 19:23

There's so many different ways and I hope that the storytelling in this format inspires as many people to think about hmm, what can I now archive and package so the community could be involved and be inspired?

Speaker 2: 19:39

So it's just a continuous act of giving and care, because I believe creating archives is a sense of care, absolutely, and the more that we do it in these different ways, the broader our stories and experiences are going to be, because one of the things I made a point with the book is that we all learn differently. We all learn differently, and I didn't want the book to be, I wanted it to be accessible to many types of readers, learners, and it's multi-generational. There are some people in the beginning of crafting their kinship to their work, the community, to the landscape of the Caribbean, and there are some makers who have been doing that for years, and so it was really important to create the space for both to be celebrated, as well as space for the ancestors, cause there's two profiles that are ancestors in the book Althea McNish and Ronald Moody, and these are names that maybe you may have heard of, but they're not like. They're not your quote, unquote household name, and you know we always have to show gratitude to the ancestors for how we're here because of them.

Speaker 1: 20:50

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's kind of like the quote from Donald Barr that says learn by doing and don't be afraid.

Speaker 2: 20:58

Let me tell you.

Speaker 1: 20:59

I was like highlight highlight, highlight, highlight.

Speaker 2: 21:03

Oh good, because you know it's so. You know how we have all our sayings. Now these will become the new ones that we could hold on to and repeat yeah, and you know, that's the beauty of our words.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Yeah, I feel like this book, like it was intentional that I didn't like try to read it and study it for this, it was like, let the page guide me, let the like whatever photo I was scanning through, and then that's how I saw Andrea's and I know that you asked that question to other people, but for some reason her stood out and that was the book speaking to me as, like, my girl. Focus on this, you know. And it's a book where I feel like, if you need inspiration, it's like something you pick up and the inspiration you get today may not be the inspiration you get tomorrow Because, like, I want to look, you know, my gosh, but the photos are beautiful, the artwork is just like, wow, this is amazing. And it's also like, you know, caribbean people are going with tings.

Speaker 2: 22:16

Yes, yes, yes. Isn't it nice seeing the makers in a different setting, not just like a traditional portrait pose for the camera? Like you see the making, you see their process, you see the messy studios right, and I intentionally made everyone's profile different, like no, it's not a cookie cutter type of experience type of book, because we're all different and I wanted to celebrate the beauty of our differences.

Speaker 1: 22:41

Listen, when I saw that man on the loom I was like, oh, I got to bring this up. I was like I remember that life.

Speaker 2: 22:50

And you notice, you notice I went far, like remember most most of the makers are based in the U S right. Of course we have many makers in the Caribbean, but I also went to West Africa because we, you know there was a large Caribbean community that went back and you know Joanna Bramble who's the weaver that's in the book she has. She's from Dominica in Guadalupe and she's working with the Senegalese weavers doing the manjack weaving. This is part of our culture Right. And also there's makers from Belize, panama. You know Caribbean culture runs. It's spread out, as we know. It's not just focused on the actual the region itself and that's also what I wanted to make sure that you know. I highlight of course there's makers in Europe as well, in Canada. We're everywhere.

Speaker 1: 23:41

I know, I know I I truly, truly enjoyed the book. I'm looking at which question I'm going to ask here yet. So what advice would you give to someone trying to discover or, like you mentioned, some people are like earlier in their maker journey. So, generally like, what advice would you give to anyone who's like I don't know if I'm going to start, I don't know if I'm creative, I don't know. I don't know if I'm a start, I don't know if I'm a creative, I don't know. I don't know I'm not good, Like you know, because that is a thing we can always tell people don't compare yourself, but it's human, we do it.

Speaker 1: 24:17

So, like, how do they get past that? You know, some people are going to look at Malaney 10 years, right? Versus not seeing Malaney in year one, right? So we can't help do that level of comparison because it happens naturally, right? So what would you encourage someone to do? To not look at where someone else is in their journey, but just to be kind to their inner artist, who's a baby that's, you know they're nurturing.

Speaker 2: 24:52

I say the first thing is just take a class. Take a class of just any medium process that is of interest. Right, let go of all outcomes. Don't go in with the intention that you're going to complete a project. You're going to make your best work. Just go in with the intention. I want to learn and I want to build community. I want to build a community of makers who are going to help support my journey. That is the key, because I remember in grad school, carrie Ann, I remember one of my professors told me guess what? You're not here to make your best work. You're only here to discover who it is you want to become and it's going to take time to figure that out. You're not going to figure it out. So if you already know that you're not going to be making your best work, you most likely will not complete a project. Then go in there and learn and have fun.

Speaker 2: 25:49

I think one of the things we forget about art is that it is fun and it's also something that's helpful for our mind. It's not all about like oh, I made this replica of this person or the object looks exactly like it is. No, it's about process. I learned something. How did you feel. Doing that, I felt so free and grounded. And then now I'm thinking about. You know what I want to do? Blah, blah, blah. Art making is. I think it forces us to dream bigger, because there's this meditative moments that happen while we're in process of making art. So just take a class, any class. That's exactly what I did. That's how I got into clay. I took a class.

Speaker 1: 26:36

Listen, let go of all outcomes. If me could have, like, insert gemstone effects here, gemstone effects here, like I think that's a barrier for us as Caribbean people, because we've come from a culture of excellence right, so everything must be right, everything must be good. You get 95 where the next five day you're supposed to get like. So this idea of letting go of outcomes, when a really a lot of us weren't really nurtured in that way and I think even for me just seeing that, I think that is also part of the art therapy, right, because art is like, yeah, you know, dry it, panty it and ta-da, buy it, pant it and ta-da yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:28

Yeah, you know Exactly when was the last time you allowed yourself to just play and just do and not worry. We're not selling it. You don't have to frame it. It doesn't have to become anything except the marks that you put on that paper.

Speaker 1: 27:43

Yeah, I love that. I love that. Thank you for that, irma. I have my last question, all right. So whenever I see myself as a creative, when I think of creative people, I think of artists who use their hands, like you. But let's think broadly in terms of creators, right? How can creatives make their work personal while honoring, like, culture and cultural traditions? How can we do more of that, especially if we're in this age of digital archiving and preservation of culture?

Speaker 2: 28:20

Yeah, I think first we have to talk to our elders and our families. You know, have those. You know the everyday conversation. If you do have a grandparent, if you have an elder aunt or even just a family friend, start recording them. You see, I didn't have experience with either of my grandparents. They both died when my father was five and then, when I was a baby, my maternal grandmother, and then, when I was a baby, my maternal grandmother, and so I have my mother and all her siblings. As I've gotten older and the way I personalize my art practice, I'm having more conversations with all of them, asking them about their migration experience.

Speaker 2: 29:01

What was that like? What was grandma like? What did we call her? You know, why did she come to the US? What happened when you didn't speak to her for nine years? You didn't see her because she left all her children at granny, and you know. Then we start talking about gosh. Imagine what that was like. There was no therapy. You know, she did all this for you guys and she didn't even get a chance to experience what she wanted to create for you. But look all my aunties and my uncle and my mother. They're in their 80s or close to it. They outlived my grandmother by many years. She died when she was 55. And look what she had created for them.

Speaker 2: 29:42

So my point is look at those stories and the objects that are in your home. All of that matters. I'm very much interested in looking at. That's why my mother. She gave me this piece of lace recently and I created a whole ceramic sculpture around it the doilies. You remember doilies? These doilies were on the table, they were on the back of couches. They decorated our spaces, but they were also a sense of pride. Yes, and so those things. What I'm saying is that we may overlook these everyday objects, but this is by looking at that and the experiences is how we could personalize our experience and then share it. Yeah, share it.

Speaker 1: 30:25

I love it. I love it. Well, malini, thank you so much for being on the podcast Everybody. I'm going to put a link to where you can get this nice, lovely book. It is just really beautiful and it's inspired me, so I know it will inspire you. And so, malini, tell everyone where they could find you on the internet.

Speaker 2: 30:46

Well, you could go to my website, melaniebarnettcom. That's M-A-L-E-N-E, b-a-r-n-e-t-t, and my Instagram is at melaniebarnett. Pretty much those are the two places where you can find me Wonderful.

Speaker 1: 31:01

Wonderful, all right. So at the end of the show I love to say walk good. And we still are going to walk good. But guess what? Melania and I is going into the after show, and the after show is only available if you're in the community, so come over there with us, alright.