SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Hello everyone, welcome to uh another episode of Carry On Friends. This is a series within Carry On Friends called Read and Carry On, where we carry on about the things that we are reading all through a Caribbean lens. And I'm joined today by two wonderful women, Nicole Dubois, who was previously on the podcast, talking about her memoir Unparalyzed, and um also Onicia Muller, who is a comedian, a writer, um, all things creative, and a friend of the podcast. So, ladies, welcome to this read and carry on edition of Carry On Friends.

SPEAKER_01: 0:43

Yay!

SPEAKER_00: 0:44

All right, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 0:46

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00: 0:48

Yes, yes, wonderful. All right, so in this edition of Read and Carry On, we're gonna be talking about the book Honeysuckle and Bone by Trisha Tobias. And that book was recommended by Nicole after our conversation back a few months ago. And I'll give you a brief synopsis about the book. The book is about Karina Marshall, and she's on the run from some deep dark secrets, and she's looking to reinvent herself. And what better place to do this than Jamaica, her mother's homeland, where she conveniently has access as an au-pair for a wealthy and powerful family called the Halls. And this prestigious family, they live at their luxurious Jamaican estate called Blackbead House, which Karina discovers may be haunted. Then this book is considered a YA book, young adult, which sometimes the classification as YA confused me because I'm like, this feels like some big people book. But I did some I did some digging, and you know, yes, the YA is geared to teens and young people, but they said the main distinction is the protagonist is usually between 12 and 18 for a YA novel versus a regular novel, they're 18 plus, so big grip back people. So anyway, um, so but I still felt like this book had a lot of layers and stuff like that. So, Nicole, you recommended the book to me. I'll kick it off to you. Like, why did you recommend the book to me?

SPEAKER_01: 2:40

And no, I I appreciate you for that. Yes, I found out about the book because my cousin, my first cousin, which I'm pretty sure I talked about when the last time we had a conversation, she said, you gotta see this, right? And she told me about um Sweet July, which is, you know, sort of the publishing company that Aisha Curry supports. And so I'm reading up about it, and I said, I need to learn more, you know, and I'm not actually, I wouldn't say that I've ever considered picking up uh books in, you know, sort of uh the YA genre. Never occurred to me. Um, but when I started to read and I said, Oh, there's mention of duck bees, and there's mention of, you know, sort of things that I can connect with culturally, I need to read this. And so I did. And immediately I was drawn in. And, you know, and now I think after I've unpacked and I've had some months, you know, some time to really distance from it to think about it. Um, what I discovered about Trisha, because this was like her debut um novel, is that I I think that's exactly how she sort of um positions, you know, sort of like a synopsis of the book. It's it's a complicated YA. It's not, you know, a typical young adult, you know, sort of read, right? Because, you know, we have um Karina sort of, you know, posing as her best friend, taking on identity, trying to run away from her feelings of guilt because she sort of, you know, took on, you know, almost the responsibility for her best friend passing away, and thinks she's gonna do this by leaving New York, where I'm a native New Yorker too, leaving New York, going to Jamaica, you know, and becoming this all-par. And that's deep. You know, I'm thinking I have a 15-year-old. That's that's that's complicated, you know, um, to even come up with that, you know, sort of thought. So it drew me in right away. And I actually I consume books I tend to on audible, like when I'm driving into work or whatever. And so, you know, hearing it acted out, it just draw me, drew me in. I couldn't stop, I couldn't put it down. So that's my why. And I said, you know, Carrie, Ann, you gotta read this.

SPEAKER_00: 5:01

Listen, all right, so there's gonna be spoilers, not a lot, but there are some, right? Um, yeah, Nicole gave away some, but you blink and you missed it, right? So, but for me, I'm glad you brought up the audiobook because the audiobook was so well done. The person who did the narration, she's of Jamaican heritage, and the way she went between the uptone speaking versus the workers on the estate, it was just really well done. I really enjoyed the performance of that audiobook, it was really great. Um, Onisa, I know why you read it, but tell the people that why you came to read it.

SPEAKER_02: 5:41

The book I came I came to read it because you dragged me into the shenanigans, ton up my whole combo. No, Carrie Ann published um uh your list of books you were trying to read, and I was like, you know what, I'm on it. So I read the paperback, I did not have the pleasure of doing the audiobook, and I did not realize it was gonna be dumpy stories, and I was afraid, but then you say it's okay, it's for it's for the youngins, it's not gonna be too scary, and it wasn't. I think it was a good balance between magical realism, supernatural, Caribbean heritage, and like you know, a 12-year-old could read it, yeah, and not be afraid, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:26

Yeah, um, it wasn't, you know, I I did see a glimpse of the conversation, I believe, that um Trisha and Aisha had on um Shari Shepherd's show and where she talked about it because when she said like duppies and all, I was like, wait, who's who's that? Because you know, it's very specific language. Um, and minota duppy, minot even watch scary movies on a regular basis. So I was like, wait a minute, but it it was measured, right? And so what I felt when I, you know, started reading the book, there was a there was a feeling of impatience for me, but curiosity, because all through the book, we knew like, okay, what is girl I run with from, right? And it felt like it was being drawn out for us to get to this point, but at the same time, we're noisy. We want to know what it is. It just kind of kept going in, and and so for me, there was this tension between, all right, tell me what she do versus this is gonna be crazy, right? This is going to whatever happens is going to be a very interesting thing. What were your thoughts as you were reading through the book? And like, all right, what what exactly did Karina do? I mean, you mentioned it, Nicole, but it's like before we even got to realize that was the thing, like it felt like what she does, what's she running away from? What's going on? Um, my plot twist didn't quite turn out to be the actual plot twist, but it was really a plot twist. So um, anyone, um, Onisia and Nicole, whichever one just wanna jump in.

SPEAKER_02: 8:07

I would like to say that the the secret of what she was running away from, I think it did justify a whole life overhaul. Because if if it were I, I too would like the earth to swallow me up, disappear me. And I think only a young adult from New York would think that they could go toe-to-toe with Jamaica. Is that naivety? They don't really know what's going on there. Um, yeah, is that youth like Jamaica is huge, you know, and it's not like like compared to other Caribbean islands, that's a country, like improper. So her how she set up her plan, the whole cell phone texting, make me feel like wow, my children like in the age of AI, like my my children could they would they would have me good proper fooled. So that's the first. That's the first I would say about about that.

SPEAKER_00: 9:15

You bring up a funny, no, she bring you bring up a good point. I was very like it was very like this age of social media and actually getting an insight from how the kids, the the young person's perspective of how much the impact of social media was having on them to the point that they were like, okay, I'm just gonna pack up this life and start a new life. Now, she started the new life scammer-ish, but let me I was gonna say very Jamaican, but let me be nice, let me be nice.

SPEAKER_02: 9:50

I mean, it is what it is, right?

SPEAKER_01: 9:53

But it's so funny because it must have been the 1970s. My mother, she you know, she um moved to New York from Jamaica when she was like 11, right? When she was 16, she ran away to Jamaica. She got on a plane and left New York City and went to Jamaica. My grandmother had to go and get her. And of course, that's before social media and everything. But I was just picturing, you know, a young adult, a teen, which that couldn't happen now, you know. And I was like, what were you doing? I was like, I was prim and proper as a 16-year-old. You ran away from the whole country, you mad? But to have, you know, develop this plan and execute it upon this plan because she needed to get away. I, you know, and so, but to your point, you know, fast forward to you know, today, I can't, I I'm just I like I said, I have a 15-year-old wrapping my head around like what it would take to put together such a plan, you know, um, and and to actually execute upon it. That's that's complex. I I took my first solo trip when I was like 36, so I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_00: 11:06

And I mean, let's be let me let me just give context to listeners who might say, but you know, mommy and daddy used to put send me pump plane for go back at Jamaica and Trinidad every summer. No, it was not that, you know, she hadn't been to Jamaica or stepped foot on the on the on the the the land, she hasn't gone back to Jamrock in a long time, so it's not that because the family was actually actively keeping her from from heritage, right? Right, that's right. So it's not like she was familiar and know the ends and know where to go. She was just like, all right, we're going to Jamaica. How hard could it be? You're like, ma'am, you know, like how hard can it be? All right, so she gets to Jamaica, and I mean, one of the things that I appreciated about the book was how much this theme of the duality, right? So we're talking about Jamaica, but it could be someone from Trinidad or anywhere, right? So, Nicole, you fall into this category because Onicia and I are born in the region where, you know, as the author, creating this connection to a place that you weren't physically born, but there's a really strong connection. And I feel like in Karina's um character, that that rings true, right? So she she's familiar enough with the culture to survive and not, you know, they're they're clear that she's foreigner, but you know enough, you know, to know that thing. And I I appreciated that because that's that's my cousin's life, that's your life. And I thought that was very important to see a novel from that perspective because I feel like there's a lot of novels that are based in the islands, the cook, the Caribbean themselves, versus from the perspective of someone like um Trisha or like your book, Nicole. So I'd like to ask you before Anisia and I did, you know, kind of jump in, like, how much of yourself did you find? How much did you see in Karina? Not necessarily the runaway and all of this, but in terms of reconnecting to back home?

SPEAKER_01: 13:26

Oh, yeah. No, it's a it's a fine question. I mean, I think this is why I started um when I was blabbering in in the beginning, talking about how, well, I'm from New York. And there was even sort of in the beginning, this reference to patty shops, right? And so if you're from New York, it's more than likely Golden Cross, which is a hundred percent true. You know, and so you know, I'm like, oh, I I resonate with this. And um I was having a conversation with my mother recently, who she was listening to me talk to someone at my job who's from Jamaica. And she's like, I don't understand when you're speaking with him or when you're speaking with certain, it's like you, I would think you're from Jamaica, right? She's like, you Jacan, but I connect so much to my that part, that part, rude, she's rank, but to that part of my identity, you know, because my friends were Jamaican, my whole family's Jamaican, and all of that. So I really did um that resonated with me a lot. But it wasn't when you mention the phrase duality, that's one aspect of it. It's like the New York and growing up as an American, but with the, you know, the um being rooted in Jamaican culture, there's actually physically going to Jamaica, but then there's Karina, and she's, you know, one person, but then she's acting, you know, like her best friend, right? And I know that was a spoiler. And so there was that, and so there's like this identity thing that's happening for her as well. And that's the other thing that I connected to being someone that published a memoir under a pseudonym. And so I spent a lot of time, you know, being two people, essentially, right? There's me, you know, the the person in my real life, and then there's me, you know, the author, right? And I actually had to spend time, and this is what we talked about on the last time that we had a conversation, reconciling that, reconciling my identity. So that that was one of the things that struck me um a lot is that you know, the conflict that that Karina, you know, sort of was was battling, you know, and even connecting to the environment of Jamaica, but also battling grief and battling guilt and all of that as well. So, you know, there was all of those things were reasons why I very much connected to the text. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 15:52

Yes, I want to hear what you thought about the the characters, Karina herself, all the things.

SPEAKER_02: 16:02

Um so when it's revealed in the end, I thought about how important it is it to really tell our children the truth about themselves. And how because like the the message of the story is no matter how hard you mess up, if you tell the truth and you choose to make better decisions, you can go forward from there, but it's hard to make decisions with limited knowledge. And I talk about this, I think about this for the children of the halls and also for Karina. Like when you grow up in a family that you think is like super proper, super nice, but then you realize that you have secrets, things that are not so proper, it it can be freeing for you. So I'm talking I'm talking about the Hall's children, but I'm also talking about myself because I feel like I can't come from this big family where everybody's super proper, super educated, super this and that. But it was only when I came to find out true family secrets, I was like, oh, thank god I could put away this facade on myself, you know. And the hall's oldest son, he would have been on a path to destruction if the dad's secrets had not been revealed, you know. And like I know they think that well, they probably don't deserve the power they have in the country. I was like, I know Miss Hall probably think that they would lose everything they had if the community really knew what they did. But honestly, it's for rightfully so. Does that make does that make sense what I'm saying here? Like I'm trying not to, I don't know if we're allowed to give spoilers.

SPEAKER_00: 18:07

No, we no, we absolutely can give spoilers. Um, because the the point is the the the the and as parents, you know, all of us here are our parents. We are we we we don't have a manual, we don't have a blueprint, we're we're making the best decisions in real time. It's my pick up for the hall. So in their mind, they think that this is the best decision for the children, right? And you know, um, there are many of scenarios that we can see where the parents are making the best decision for the child. The challenge with making the best decision for the the child, right, is when they become an adult, when do you think you can have the conversation that you are protecting them from when they were smaller? And that's always the challenge, right?

SPEAKER_02: 18:55

So, like you can have this conversation in stages, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 19:00

No, you I I don't know the answer to that because you know, I I could be guilty of something a couple of years from now. My kids might say, Mommy, why you didn't tell me? I don't know, but it's what I've observed as a pattern in this story and in life, you know. Like, I think I was watching something with Kerry Washington and you know, the whole thing, like how you know, the the question is, how do you tell the child? You know, like it's there's you know, you're there the parents have their own feelings and worries. The halls rightfully need to worry, right? Because there's crookedness involved in what they were doing, right? But it's always the difficult thing that we can we can always come up with things that we could say, but you know, when the rubber meets the road, me can't tell what we go do, you know. Um, but it's it a lot of it though, is like you said, Onissa, it's fear. It's you you want to you you want to maintain appearances and and the you you you you worry about losing everything, and you and I know. That you worry about losing it, but you're gonna lose it anyway. There are many of examples where you fear doing something because you'll lose everything, but you end up a losing it, you know. Um, what's the Caribbean saying? Well, go on a night, go come out, come on, come to like Nai Monthly, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 20:17

I was gonna say, and can we talk about the duppy of it all? Oh my god, like I feel like we have two Caribbeans, the colonized Caribbean that's very Christian, Christian, but then we also have to acknowledge our African indigenous roots. And I feel like sometimes people like she went to the witch doctor, and I feel like if you want to go to the witch doctor, you need to go making informed decisions, you can't just go in those places because you don't know where you're gonna pick up when you leave, you know. So I'm not saying that she's not supposed to go, but I feel like if we have these conversations with our children or give them some exposure, there would be like less like how what what can I reveal about my knowledge of the dark arts? Like, like, okay, so Karina has unresolved issues with her best friend. Imagine she goes to get what she thinks is a curse removed off of her, but she not telling the the I don't I don't think the word is a witch doctor, the full stories. You can't get the right remedy if you're not coming with the full story, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 21:38

You know what I'm saying? So so let me so let me so let me jump in. She went to the obya woman, let's just call it what it is. That's what the object word, yes. She went to the obya woman in Jamaica, yes, go on now.

SPEAKER_02: 21:55

Oh, yeah. So she went to the obey woman in Jamaica, and I feel like things might have gone more differently if she was more open and honest about what's happening. She lucky who was after her was not a bad spirit, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 22:16

Because they from I thought you were gonna say open with her like her mother, you were in a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_02: 22:30

If you if if Triton wasn't real with his daughters about who Ursula was, yeah, then she would approach this thing with more knowledge and more caution instead of you making crazy deals. But yes, she she need the hey yo, that mother really lucky she didn't lose her daughter in the jungles of Jamaica.

SPEAKER_00: 22:53

Listen, I'm I'm because them halls was not playing, them halls was indeed um let's the hall, because it was really one hall at the end of it, right? That was not playing. But you you know, to let go coming back to the point, she she let she didn't pick up and go to an obia woman on her own. So she is uh up here on this big sprawling estate, and the estate have other workers, the pool person, all these other people on the estate. So so so they don't trust her because she had a foreigner, and of course, it gets territorial because who like who, and you know, all the things that happen, right? So it was the guy who said, or they something they suggested that she goes to the reader woman, the obvious woman to get to figure something out. But before that, she didn't really just say, okay, you know, the rolling calf or the cow or the everything, whatever came out in the thing made her realize that okay, she's scared, she's not asleep, nothing. Something is happening that pushed her to do that. So she never really does it on her own. But to your point, Onissa, she she because she knows some aspects of culture, we we it's taboo to talk about Obia because we're a very Christian region and we don't talk about it. She not really, she knows that it's like, I'm not sure, but she not understands the magnitude of making such a decision, right? So it goes back to your point, right? We might say, well, you know, regardless of what everyone will say about colonialism and how people feel about Obia, we we need to to understand what it is. So they to make an informed decision. So she goes there on the bike back, which which when she describing the drive on the bike back, me said, please God, no, me then drop off of this bike back at the rate they were going. In in this rural place, right? You know, if if you've never been to if you've only been to Kinston and haven't been outside of Kinston and you are driving at night, it is just pitch black in Jamaica, right? Yeah, there is is is just and the outline of the trees alone is scary. So them on this bike driving through was just like that. Was terrifying enough for me, but she made that decision because one of the co-workers um informed her, and then as you can imagine, all the rumors and missing people and all of that, they just kind of laid the groundwork for all of this suspense. And I really said, All right, the halls did something, the big son, I'm guilty, I'm guilty, I'm guilty. That's how I thought because of how they had set it up. But as it went on, I'm like, he it's too obvious, right? He's too obvious to be the guilty person. Now, switching a little bit in terms of the portrayal and the because we touched now on the co-workers, the portrayal of life on this estate, the workers. What what are your thoughts of how that relationship is it plays out in the novel?

SPEAKER_01: 26:27

Because I personally feel like you know, this is typical settings of rich and poor, up tone, downtone, the class, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:39

Yeah, that was a big part. Onisa, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02: 26:43

So I grew up and we had a maid, and um my aunt, she actually had live in maids, and that was a uh a uh what do they say, a bridge too far for me? That is kind of weird to me. Um, are you talking about the class dynamics of the whole situation? I think if you're paying people a living wage is it's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 27:11

I mean, I'm not asking if it was right or wrong, but I think you know, for you, even for you, Nicole, like what you know of Jamaica and how it was represented in this particular story. Um, specifically, um, because if someone else listens to this, watches this, they may not realize that this happens in Jamaica, right?

SPEAKER_02: 27:38

Like, well, it wasn't too far a concept for me because I feel like I've lived a little bit of that and seen other people live with more on hand help. Um, I think the strange part, well, I've never worked for a politician. Just the covering people's sins, I don't like. I want to clock in, clock out. I don't want to be responsible for whatever dirty ness you got going on and keeping secrets. So that's the only thing I could say about that.

SPEAKER_01: 28:11

Yeah. And you know, I obviously didn't grow up in Jamaica, but my mom talks about growing up almost in two worlds in Jamaica because there was a point when her mom left to come, you know, to the States, and she was living with relatives and the family, they had, you know, they had people that did the ironing and people that did the washing, and they had, you know, um maids. And she also lived, you know, where my my grandmother and her dad lived in a one-room house. So she did that, right? And so it it based off of her description, it was very normal for her, you know, to have lived in both worlds, and it didn't feel like she, she didn't feel, she didn't describe it as feeling like privileged or anything. It was like everybody that she knew, you know, in that area, you know, would have had um maids. And she was friendly with, you know, the staff that worked in the house where she lived. And then I think on balance, the interesting thing is for me, you know, sort of where I am now, you know, when I bring, I have house cleaners come to my house now. Why? Because my life is busy. And, you know, sometimes I think about really wanting to make sure that I am, as you were saying, Anoisia, paying anybody that is, you know, contributing to make my life easier a living wage. And I am, you know, thoughtful and and all of that. But I know that there are I've experienced where people are like, what do you mean? You need somebody to come clean your house? Why can't you do that yourself? And I'm like, what are you talking about? It's all because my life is busy. It's not about, you know, me thinking that I'm I'm better. I'm not wealthy. It's not about that, you know. So um I just think that's an interesting thing. But um I I did, you know, um wonder about that. I feel like that came up. It was really, you know, sort of um curious to me, you know, thinking about the dynamic and the relationship and how the staff, you know, on the property must have felt in in this home, the Hulls' home, you know, um, and whether the Hulls like, you know, knew about some of the dynamic and some of the conversations that were sort of going on amongst their staff. I yeah, I did sort of wonder about that.

SPEAKER_00: 30:28

Um, so I grew up with my aunt, my grandmother's sister, she had a helper, and the helper had like a separate quarters in on the property. And, you know, she was part of the family. So I found the strict isolation or strict non-fraternization rules very different, you know, to what I've seen, you know, personally growing up. Um, but again, my aunt didn't have an estate that needed multiple people to be on it. And um, you know, of course, this the element of being a powerful politician or someone, what we would say high society. Um, yeah, that creates a whole other element. And also, we, you know, we could share this who's in the middle of a re-election at that, right? Because so there's this heightened scrutiny that is happening, you know, for the family at the time. So we've rambled on and we're really trying to not give away the whole book because we really think that you should read it because the reveal at the end, some things were surprising, but my gosh, there there was one reveal like I didn't see this coming at all. Did any of you I mean you are making guesses, but did any of you think the actual thing was the thing, or how close were you to it? I'll start with you, Onesia.

SPEAKER_02: 32:00

No, I was gonna say I did not guess the ending. What I will say that the book also reminded me how important our birth and our burials are, our birth and our burials really can set the tone for our life and our afterlife, and how the mom, I'm not gonna say which mom, the mom needed a proper burial. I forgot about how important that is. And I feel so bad for adopted children. Like, on one hand, you know that you probably were adopted for a good reason, but that not knowing or not being welcomed into a good safe home to start your story, that that is real. That's what I will say about that. Also, with the plot the the plot twist, I think you know, this is categorized as young adults, but if you like a good thriller, if you like a good mystery, a a good ghost story, this was a fun um read. I won't call it too light, it's it's for children, but I think it was nuanced enough, the genre was mixed enough that adults will also enjoy it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:25

Yeah. I I totally agree. Yeah. I totally agree. I mean, and there was so much in it that I mean you reference children, and I get young adult, but you know, one of the things, and I really do hope, you know, readers, folks will read the book, is that there's um there's some things that people should read, read it. They should sort of read it with caution, right? Because dang, you know, for for the amount of things that the layers that you refer to carry on that a teen was sort of dealing with as they're you know, sort of going on the journey of the book and move the the story and moving from New York to Jamaica and carrying the guilt and you know, all the different things that could have happened and that did happen, you know, even on the estate, it's like let's watch our teens, you know, let's have conversations with our teens because my word, you know, and talk to them about jealousy and envying other people things because we didn't even talk about the New York aspect of the life, okay?

SPEAKER_02: 34:29

And I feel like if Karina, if she had a better sense of who she was, she wouldn't have been envying her friends so hard. And and I don't know, I grew up and I knew what it was like to have money, and then my parents went through a divorce and a bankruptcy, and I knew what it was like to not have, and it was tough for my siblings at time during that period of like we not having, and I used to be like, F them rich kids, I really don't give a rat's dingling. I know who I am, you know, money, no money, and sometimes you see that, especially at that pivotal age of like 18 to 21, when you go to college and you protect the youth. You that pivotal age of where like you can do adult things like have a job, have your own apartment, but if you don't know who you are, don't know your history, and you don't have to know everything, you know. You but having a strong foundation sense of self helps that when you make a mistake, you can bounce back from it instead of feeling the shame of like, oh my parents are bankrupt, and I need to put on for people, I need to buy friends. Be like, no, money is very limited. I'm not buying friends. Same for Karina, she was trying to be joy, she was trying to be joy, and everybody was like, You're not a joy, and I think that's like very symbolic, like you trying to be something you're not and just be yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 36:12

I I agree, and I think as I was watching this, uh um not watching, but like listening and reading at the same time, I thought about how much my upbringing is so different that it grounded me in a particular way. I went to all girls high school in Jamaica, and within that, there's a mixed population, people who don't have and people who have, right? And, you know, the conversations that you now have to have with children about, hey, you know, as you get older and as you go through school, you're going to come across other students or or classmates or schoolmates who are gonna have a lot more than what you have. And it's the conversation that it doesn't make you less of a person, right? It's just and it doesn't make them a bad person, it just makes them different. But that difference shouldn't change fundamentally who you are, and that's very hard to do because I didn't have social media back home when I was growing up in Jamaica. I went home and I went home, right? They did what they did and they lived in the rich area, and I lived in my area of the hood. And that was that, right? Now you see into the other person's life even when you're home. And I think that was that's what the you know, young people nowadays. I mean, uh let's not say young people, everybody, even adults dealing with this, right? And how how how we deal with it, the tools and the resources to kind of deal with this, right? Because here's the challenge that we're having. We come from a culture. I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna use the Jamaica bad mind, me not grudgeful, me not envious, but the data and the research shows that when you go on social media, you the the the chemicals, that's what they're triggering. And so there's this tension between culturally, like the you know, we're not bad mind, we're not grungeful, we're not envious, and we're not grudging, you know, all of these things, but your body and your psychology is doing something different because you know, these tools, as many ex workers of many ex companies are saying they were built so you can stay in the platform and it constantly feeds all these things, right? And so we have to look at that. We're not fully equipped, I'm not fully equipped. None of us are fully equipped to deal with it because we all between all three of us here and the stories with the people in all of our networks, we haven't heard or experienced half of what young people, adults, people will deal with when it comes to how they feel about themselves after seeing stuff on social media. And I think that was a huge takeaway because you know, because of how everything played out on social media, you had this tragedy, you know, somebody did, and somebody took on the dead person identity, and you know, feeling lost within themselves. There's a lot of grief and guilt. That's like a survivor's remorse, you know. Um, so very interesting read. And like you said, um Nicole, I appreciate that. I wouldn't read this as I could or would. It's a really good insight into what young people could be dealing with, right? Absolutely. And you know, I would I I took it as an information session, like, oh yeah, it's like rips and friend groups.

SPEAKER_01: 39:55

That's real. I mean, my my high schooler, he when he was in seventh grade. Grade, literally it was um it was maybe a race class thing, right? Where he was called the M-word for the first time. And I was like, what in the hell? You know, and literally kids, young people that I had over at my house for for play dates and all of that, they they were friends and they stopped talking. And it was crushing. And and a part of it had to be, you know, regular conversations. We're talking, we're getting out, we're trying to understand, letting him, you know, express his emotions about it. Because that that kind of stuff can be real. And he had a friend earlier this year, 14 years old, went on the internet to talk about social media, right? Well, he was searching, he was he was looking a girl. Turns out the girl wasn't a girl, it was a man. Big man, asking for money. Oh no. And then asked my son, his friend asked my son, oh, can I can I get you know$50 because they're asking for this? My son was like, No, I'm good. Right? So this kind of stuff is real, like really understanding what happens for young people, what can happen because of social dynamics with friends, you know, issues and all of that, social media, we gotta talk to our kids. That's one of the things that was a major takeaway, you know, for me.

SPEAKER_02: 41:17

I want to say the craft of the book. Usually a lot of the Caribbean books I read are from yesteryear, and so I had feelings reading a book where they mentioned Twitter and Facebook. Yep. And um I it was it it it was it is exciting to see that yes, you know what, the Caribbean is a real place, and we are in the modern times, and there's modern, yeah. There's it's just a reminder of like how quickly social media is bringing adulthood to the kids. Like my son was watching K-pop Demon Hunters, he's seven, and just that little part of the story where like the girls have fallen in love with Abby and his abs, and he's seven, and he looks down and he's kind of been obsessed with like mommy, do I have abs? Is it coming in yet? And I'm like, you don't worry about no wait till you're eight. Don't don't worry, don't worry about that, you know? And he's only seven, and um so like my husband is scrolling on like Reddit, and he read something on Reddit, and he came to me, asked me, Mommy, was X R some adult topic at blackout on my mind, and I was like, Well, who said that to you? Wait, here that he's like, I seen it on Reddit. The the topics is the internet is bringing information to them faster and quicker, and yeah, like this AI, like sometimes I don't let them go unsupervised on YouTube. Yeah and yesterday I thought they were watching something um educational, and I look at it and they got spelling typos in in the video. It was like one of those ABC videos where it's like A so Apple and then they spell Apple wrong. And I was just like, Are they watching AI slap? Like somebody was just like, give me an alphabet video, anyways. Right, right. Yeah, so Honeysuckle and Bone was made the Caribbean a real place, and also was an insight into how much kids can do, how much adult and baby 18 is at the same time. Yeah, and I really love the descriptions. Like I've read books where they like they describe the Caribbean, but it was from a perspective of someone who sees the Caribbean every day, seeing it from an outsider's perspective. The descriptions of the book were really, really well written. It was a good um beginner curse for foreigners who have not been to the Caribbean to get to get an idea into it. So good job to the author.

SPEAKER_01: 44:14

To Trisha. Trisha, my fellow Fordham Ram, and she's so down to earth, and she's a you know, Jamaican American, and I love it, and you know, accepted my connection requests on social media, and so nice, which is really cool. Yeah, no, I I I was I really appreciated, you know, it helping me to uh break in because I'm usually not huge on fiction. I like I said, young adult, that genre is is not, you know, a genre that I would normally say, Leah, let me pick up a young adult novel. Like, no, it's just that's just not my thing. But this maybe because of all the different ways that I connected to it, um, you know, I it it just pulled me right on in, and I'm so happy it did. So great read.

SPEAKER_00: 44:59

Wonderful. Honey suckling bone, a good read. We deliberately was hopscotching over all the major things because what we mentioned is not even the full story, and we really want you to enjoy it. You know, there are other times I'll full spoilers, but I think this one, because it's a YA, it's out of what we'd normally read, but it was just so layered, and I think that's what it means to be of Caribbean heritage, you know, to have layers, right? To be connected to a region you weren't born in, but have really strong connection to it, connected to a region that has all this massive impact on the world in terms of culture. So, you know, um, you know, just to give you a quick story and just kind of wrap up. So yesterday I was texting with um my friends and they saw a post on social media about some news thing, and someone commented, yes, now Spanish town. We started laughing because in Jamaica the kids would say, Yes, no, Spanish town, and that's bad, right? And it's because Spanish town has the prison. So at a very young age, we understood the consequences, and I think that's I think that's something with a lot of Caribbean kids understand. Like we understand and appreciate youth, but in some aspects, we grew up really fast knowing circumstances and life. And I think, you know, I think when you add the American layer onto it, there's this idea of distance can separate them from the reality or the big people or the responsible thing. And we learn that it does not in this story, right? So I think as parents, we we do what we can and we do the best. We are making the best decision in real time. But at some point, sometimes we have to consider when that decision that we made is no longer for the good and could potentially harm who we were protecting in the first place. And I think that's a very hard place to be in because none of us know what we'll do. But read honeysuckle and bone and then comment on this video. If you read it, comment under this video, or if you're listening to the audio only version, send me a matches somewhere where we are, and um, let's talk about it. So, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Carry On Friends, where we're talking about honeysuckle and bone in our read and carry on series. Thank you, Nicole and Onesia. Um, we will find some other book again to read. And until next time, walk good.