SPEAKER_01: 0:03

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Carry On Friends, the Caribbean American experience, and I'm excited to have my next guest on the podcast. Um, very new and interesting perspective, I hope to gain on the show. But before I get into any of that, um, Tammy, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

SPEAKER_00: 0:25

I'm great. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01: 0:29

Wonderful. So, why don't you tell the community of friends a little bit about who you are, Caribbean country or countries you represent and about the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00: 0:38

Sure. My name is Tammy Garcia, and I am a cultural heritage reconnection coach. Um, and what I do is I help people reconnect with their heritage and feel more grounded and proud of who they are so they can live more confident lives. And how I got to doing this is really interesting. Because people always say we've never heard of a heritage reconnection coach, right? So my story is I was um raised disconnected from my cultural heritage. My family is from Jamaica and the Dominican Republic, but I was raised in Cleveland, Ohio. And I was never raised around anything from the family, and it was just very hard for me. And um in school, you know, kids used to pick on me, and I was always like that Garcia who couldn't speak Spanish. And I said my family is West Indian from the Caribbean, but I didn't know anything about it. And so kids always said to me, Oh, you're just trying to be fake, you're trying to be something that you're not. But you know, in actuality, I was just trying to be something that I was, and I did not know how to do that. So I vowed that when I became a parent, I would do differently. I did not want my kids to be raised outside of their heritage, right? And I wanted them to know about it and have a strong grounding in that. Then I went away to college and I went to Howard University. And this was the first time that I was around people that looked like me, that had similar backgrounds and experience like myself. And it was the first time that I really started being proud of being black and the mixture that I had. And so I started looking into it and learning more, and I realized the more I learned, the more I wanted to learn, and the more I wanted to be around it, and the more whole and confident I felt. Then I uh became a parent and I adopted my daughter. My daughter is from Ethiopia, so I definitely wanted her to be raised proud of not only the culture in which she was being raised in, but who she was, right? Because they have she is a very strong and rich culture. I lived in Washington, D.C. at the time, and even being the largest, having the largest population outside of Ethiopia, I still struggled to find ways to keep her connected. And I have, you know, Ethiopian friends, Habasha family, even, and no one really knew how to do that. They were struggling as well. And they told me, When you figure it out, you let me know, because they didn't. And as I started thinking about it and looking at it, it just wasn't my story or someone, um, you know, my Ethiopian friend's story. It was everybody's story, no matter where they were from. People wanted to keep their kids connected to their heritage and people didn't know how. And I thought, why is it so difficult for us to connect with something so important, who we are at the core, and it makes us, right, who we are and our confidence and relationships and everything like that. So I decided that I would do something about that. And that's how I started in the heritage reconnection um realm. And I started developing curriculum, working in schools. Um, then during COVID, I went online and started a platform and was doing that. I decided to relocate my family to Mexico and then started looking at different ways to do that and expanded instead of focusing on youth um and children. I started to focusing on the bigger picture because it's parents, right? And we control, we control really what our kids learn. And I just believe that we needed to focus in on the whole family. And I wrote a book um that came out last year called Rediscovering Your Roots: A Guide to Reconnecting with Your Cultural Heritage and Identity. And now I'm working through that with the many tools and ways that I help people reconnect with their heritage into who they are.

SPEAKER_01: 5:29

Before I was taking a lot of notes, I already had, you know, like some ideas of what I wanted to talk about, but I was taking some notes. But I want to go back. I want you to clarify something for the audience. So in the beginning, you said, you know, when you went to Howard, you were finally proud of your culture. I from my prior conversations with you, I think I know what you mean, but I want you to clarify that. It's not that you weren't, let me not put words in your mouth. Could you clarify that before we go forward?

SPEAKER_00: 5:57

I didn't know enough to have a sense of pride in it. I knew that I wanted to, but I did not hate who I was, but I didn't know enough to have any feeling about it. I didn't know the um traditions or the languages. I didn't know other kids that were like me. And my family, what I realized was that the foods and some of the things that we did, it was just what we did, right? It was just who we were. And I didn't even realize it was from Jamaica or from Dominican Republic because nobody talked about it. And the important part to my family was that they wanted their children to be Americanized. So there was no patois, there was no Spanish, there was nothing. And the only time people spoke that was when maybe they were with elders or they didn't want the kids to know what was being said, right? So they were just busy trying to make it and to make that like American dream that they say. And I think they just back then that my my great-grandparents, my grandparents, they just believed that we're here, this is who we are, and you should know that. And there's no focus on that. But for the younger generations, that wasn't what we picked up. We picked up quite the opposite. So I had no pride really in that. I know it felt good when I was around people, but there was no pride. But I not only there, it was also for being a black American. I didn't have any pride in that either. This was who I was, and I did not want to be anything else, but I did not know how to be that because we didn't come from a history or background of that. My father is African-American, but I wasn't raised with him or his family. So everything that I know is my mother's family. So I did not know how to be, you know, a uh African-American, nor did I know how to be, you know, West Indian. So I was just here and it's who I was. And people looked at me and assumed that when I was with these people, I was this, or you look different, or you're this, or you're that. So it was just very hard for me to be what I was. So that's what I said. When I got to Howard and I was around all of these beautiful, brilliant black people from all over the diaspora, I was calling home every day, several times a day. I was so excited in the people that I was meeting and what I was learning because in school we won't we weren't presented with these things, we didn't know these. So that's what I meant about, you know, that I didn't have an opportunity or a reason. I didn't understand who I was, so there was no pride in it. I was just existing.

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

Got it. What I love about your story and you reaching out was, you know, your experience is something that I talked about in the Caribbean diaspora experience model that I came up with. And um it has six lenses, and lens one, a lot of it is kind of based on my lived experience and my family. And so lens one of the model is your where you start shapes your journey. And there are like six starting points in that, you know, adult migration, you know, nine to seventeen migration, under nine migration, because that's literally me, my mom, and my brothers, and then um diaspora born connected to culture, my cousins, and diaspora born disconnected from culture, which is you, right? And um, I in the episode explaining lens one, I said that there are a variety of reasons why, you know, people are disconnected from culture. Um, every family situation is different. You know, in lens two of the model, I talk about geography impacts your connection to culture. Living in Cleveland back when you were growing up is very different now, right? And so I lived in the Midwest as well. So I I understand that geography, you know, the the migration period of your grandparents, your great-grandparents, the time they came to America and what was happening will also impact how much they will want to hide or suppress where they're from for bare means of survival and not wanting their kids to have any accent, no anything. It was just their way of trying to protect the you the children when they go off to school because they don't want no problems. And it was what they knew how to do. So I'm really glad that this is coming together in a way in real life for people to understand that you know, the work you do plus the model um through carry on friends, you represent that. And you you said so much here. I don't even know where to to to kind of dive next. So you talked about being a reconnection coach, and you started off with the children at first, the youth, and then you decided to go to the parents. I'm very curious, what did you find that the parents weren't able to do to help their children reconnect? Is it because the parents are disconnected, or is it that the parents just don't know how to help the kids connect? What was your finding in in those scenarios?

SPEAKER_00: 12:02

So, like you with your different levels, there are many different reasons why people can't reconnect. First of all, just let me talk briefly about the whole reconnection piece. So a lot of people think, oh, aren't you helping people connect? Why do you say reconnect? So I I deliberately use reconnect.

SPEAKER_01: 12:29

You do I agree with you. I agree because they were born connected. It's some way through there that severed a little bit. So we're gonna reconnect it. I I already know what you're putting down.

SPEAKER_00: 12:42

So you so you got it exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 12:44

So that's the the whole reconnection because you know because you were all born into it, not because it's our inheritance, not because we're not, you know, actively engaged in it. It doesn't mean that it's a birth, it's not it's not a birthright. I believe it's a birthright, it's just that you're not tapping into it, right?

SPEAKER_00: 13:03

It's absolutely birthright, it's our gift from our ancestors. Absolutely. So, but there are many different reasons why. Many of the reasons that all of the reasons you said some because they were never connected, you know, they never had those experiences, or they had some of the experiences, but they didn't feel like they knew. And so, what I call like cultural imposter syndrome. So we all know the imposter syndrome from the work perspective, but within our heritage, it's the same thing. You don't feel like you really belong, or do you have the right to claim this and then to pass it on and share it? Or there are many people because of you know, mixed families now, um, and maybe one parent is not a part of it, they don't know how to share it. There are a lot of people like my daughter who's adopted and who don't know how to share someone else's culture, um, allow them to be a part of their heritage. So there are many, many different reasons why. Um, and the same that you found.

SPEAKER_01: 14:22

That is fascinating because what what we're finding is that with each generation, which is kind of the work I've been leaning into, with each generation, we run the risk of I don't want to say diluting, but we make it even harder to build stronger connection because as each generation is removed from how much they engage or connect with culture, it's gonna be even harder for um connection. Not not impossible, but harder. Because then you, you know, as as I ex I imagine with anything in life, like Tammy, I known you all my life. I didn't know you as Jamaican and and you know from the DR. So why all of a sudden you are Buenos Dias and Wagon Man, right?

SPEAKER_00: 15:08

Like people are gonna be like, you're a little Jafakan, you know, or whatever, right? Exactly. And as I started building this out and searching for ways to share it, um, and I looked at my life and the steps that I took through reconnecting when I got out of college, um, and how hard it was. And so I just started putting all those two things together in the tools, but finding you know, resources and podcasts like yours and the work that you're doing is so important because, as you were saying, if we're not out here doing this work and telling people that no, this is your inheritance, it's okay, right? And you can do this, and these are the different ways, and you create your own identity, you create your own traditions and cultural practices, and you make what works for you. It doesn't have to look one way, and you know, back in the day with our grandparents, our great-grandparents, sure, things were very it this is the way that it is, and this is how you have to be, but the world is different, we're different people live all over the world now, not just on the island. So, how it looks is different. So, we have to tell people and show people how it's okay and change the paradigm for this. And without someone seeing it, it's just like a child can't aspire to be a certain profession if they've never seen it, if they don't have access to it, if they don't know about that. We get that, but for some reason, people believe the opposite of heritage, that it doesn't matter, you're not there, you can't claim it, you can't do it. But no, it's the same thing. If people don't see others doing it and how it's possible, then they just believe it's not possible for them.

SPEAKER_01: 17:18

Do you think this reluctance to claim a heritage is let me back up? I know people who their great-great-great-great grandfather came from Italy or great-great-great-great-grandfather or grandmother or whatever, they came from Ireland. Some tr three greats came from someone and they consider themselves Irish or whatever, right? Do you find if this reluctance to claim a heritage, you know, across the board, regardless of culture or race, or is it predominantly centered around like people of color, like you know, African diasporic people reluctant to claim a culture because they weren't born into it, or literally born into that region? I'm just curious because I see that play out. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. My great-great-grandmother came from Ireland. We're all Irish, you know, even if generations removed, versus I see people born of Caribbean heritage explaining away that no, I'm American, and then they're like, Where are your parents from? They're like Jamaican. Well, so you're Jamaican, and they're like, uh, because they know the conversation that happens on the flip side of that. People are gonna say, you're not Jamaican, you're American. And so they find themselves in this volley of, you know, depending on who they're talking to, of course you're Jamaican American, of course you're Jamaican. And and other people are like, no, you're American, you're not Jamaican. So I don't know in the work you've done, if you've, you know, not necessarily hard data, but if you've found a pattern in terms of those who are like, yeah, you know, versus no.

SPEAKER_00: 19:02

So that's very interesting. I don't have any statistical data. That would be something interesting to start putting together. So thank you for that. But uh just from anecdotal, I think there are two things. The first thing is I think it's an American thing. I've seen and had conversations with white Americans, Asian Americans who say the same thing. I think it's an American thing because we're so stuck on is being USA, America, our way is the best. Forget everything else. And we see it happening now. So I think it's an American thing, um, regardless of race, because I also see in other countries that if they're Caribbean or someplace from Africa, they have a stronger connection to that and don't have a problem saying that. And you you've heard so many people say, Oh, you Americans, how you define things or whatever, it just doesn't make sense. So I think it's an American thing. The other thing is I do think it's much stronger with primarily black and Latino. I think it's much stronger with us, especially black, because it was um beaten out of us, right? They didn't want us to know. Um so those are the reasons why, and it's so hard to have those conversations with some people because it was beaten out, you know, generation after generation. And so learning how to say and acknowledge that you're more than this, this is who you are. It's like on one hand, people know that, but they're afraid and don't understand that it's important, right, to who you are. I always say this like people don't have a problem with if you if you find out that your great-great grandparents left you a thousand acres in Jamaica or in North Carolina or Ghana, people will be on that first plane smoking to claim it, right? So people don't have a problem with that, but I find it very odd that people have a problem with claiming their identity, their heritage, their roots. Why? Because when you think about it, it's I mean, it's even more important, but I don't care if you're five percent something, if that percent Was taken from you, you either would not be alive or you wouldn't be able to see, because a key part of who you are has been removed from you. And a lot of people say, Well, I can't, you know, go around telling people that I'm Native American when I'm only this. It doesn't mean you have to walk around saying all of these things, right? But it does, by knowing who you are, you can learn more about it and feel that pride. You can't start um adapting some of your traditions and learning more because it is still a part of you. But I think people really negate if it doesn't say you're that 51%, people don't believe that you should say that's part of who you are when it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01: 22:55

I find it very interesting again, because uh uh uh going back to the model, I and I recognize this when I was building out the model, the time period it plays a huge role. When I moved here from Jamaica in the 90s, I I didn't have to hide that anything. I mean, even everybody was Jamaican at that point. Um, so I think the time period in which migration happened or when parents or grandparents came over plays a huge role in how people express that. And so I want to go back to your story a little bit about when you went to Howard and the steps you took to reconnect to culture. I don't want you to tell me the whole story, but what was of all the steps that you took, you know, what was like one or two of those steps that really helped you the most? I mean, all those steps kind of play a huge role, but which step do you felt like was the most impactful?

SPEAKER_00: 23:56

So I felt most disconnected from my Dominican side because I was raised in the house with my Jamaican family, and we would go to New York with the you know extended family and everything. So that wasn't one that I really set out to know more about at the time. You know, I knew the stories and things like that, some of them. It was my Dominican side. So, long story short, when I graduated from college, um, this was back in the day of you know, AOL dollop, right? So I was like, Oh, what am I gonna do now? I want to know about this. I'll try to move to DR. That didn't happen. So I wasn't wanting to know about these things. So I got on the 411 and called information and was like, Do you have a Dominican association in New York? And they were like, Yeah, we have this association, this this organization, this organization. So I got the number for the first one that they gave me, Community Association of Progressive Dominicans and Washington Heights. And I talked to the executive director and I said, I'm moving to New York, and I was moving to New York to reconnect. So I moved my proximity to the culture, I moved closer. I called, told them my story, and started volunteering there and with the nonprofit. I loved it so much because this was the first time in my life that people weren't questioning who I was, right? It was quite the contrary. People were asking me, Why didn't you speak Spanish? Are you not proud of who you are? I was like, oh my gosh. So it was the opposite. Then they gave me a job and I started working there and I became second in charge of the nonprofit. And then I just became part of the community. But then also by being in New York, then I started delving more into my Jamaican side. So it's proximity. I was just, I went all in on it. Um, started learning the language, started learning how to cook the food, the traditions. More of my friends were Dominican, Jamaican. Um, I had, you know, a Haitian boyfriend, which was, you know, very taboo at the time, which you know, I just kind of just went all in. I was like, nope, this is who I am, and I'm and I'm going to learn about it.

SPEAKER_01: 26:29

I love that story. And it does make sense, right? Proximity makes all the difference. Um, so I wanna I wanna read your answer to one of the questions that I had asked you. And you said, I used to think that claiming culture meant you had to know enough or have grown up close enough to it. I don't believe that anymore. I've come to understand that connection can be real even when it's complete or easy to explain. Could you talk to me a little bit more about that?

SPEAKER_00: 27:04

Right. So, connection can be real even when it's not easy and hard to explain, right? Um, first you have to decide that this is what you want to do. And this is who you are, and you're going to claim it. You're going to leave that cultural imposter syndrome in the wind, and you're going to claim it. And that's hard to do. I'm I'm not even going to lie. Sometimes I still feel some kind of way when I'm around, you know, my people, right? Because I still wonder, I'm like, do I know enough? Am I going to say the wrong things? I don't know the nuances.

SPEAKER_01: 27:51

Yeah, because naturally, as humans, we compare. You're comparing yourself against others, and you then start to look at yourself. So I imagine you're you're gonna be like, am I Dominican enough, Jamaican enough? That's a reality. So yeah, absolutely normal, by the way. Continue, sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:14

So um, but once you decide that this is something that you're going to own, then as I was saying about the proximity and those things, then you just go about first owning it no matter what, and when people try to shut you down, you ignore it, you shut them down, and this is who you are. So you have to be unapologetic about this and about this journey. It doesn't matter if you knew me for 40 years and I never told you that, so it doesn't matter. We all have a history, and we are all, we all have the right to change what we're focusing on and talking about and being at that time, and that's okay. Um, so no matter how much I know or I didn't know um at the time, like I don't I don't believe that that's the truth anymore, is stories that we tell ourselves. So, yes, I used to tell myself that, but once I started feeling like that, just like anything else, what once you accept something and you show that confidence in it, no matter what it is, other people will accept it too. Right? If you decide you want to be an artist and you start telling people you're an artist, and you start, you know, I don't know, dressing creatively creatively or showing your art every now and then, or talking about it, or being it, people are gonna start believing it, even if last year you weren't talking about it. But by this year, people are like, oh yeah, they're an artist, so it's the same thing. I no longer believe that. I think we absolutely have the choice, and it's very easy to do to start, but I also know that it's hard for people to because of just the world and what people believe, and whether online trolls or everyone wants to tell you who you are, what you should be doing, right? And um, in your career and your life, and this is no different.

SPEAKER_01: 30:32

When you think of people like myself and maybe a good amount of the listeners of this podcast who are more firmly rooted in their heritage, their awareness, their, you know, even if they were born in the diaspora, they're a lot more connected. What role do we play in supporting others like yourself in their reconnection journey?

SPEAKER_00: 31:03

To be accepting, right? Be welcoming, don't discount people's journey or their story because it's different from yours. And when someone says who they are or they start asking questions about it, don't shut people down so fast. Don't make them feel bad about who they are or their experience. Um, I haven't found, have I found people to do that? Some people, some people want to say to me, oh, that was, you know, your grandmother who was that. That's not you. Or some I was like, but it was my grandmother. How is that not who I am? And why can't I claim it? You know, and oh, you weren't born in the you weren't raised in the country, you didn't, you don't know enough about it. Um, and like you said, you're you know, fake Jamaican or fake Dominican or whatever. But so just don't shut people down. You have to be accepting and share when you can invite them in. Um, I'm still because I you know, I still have questions when I want to join things. I live in Mexico and there is a Jamaican Mexican association for all the Jamaicans here in Mexico. And when I found out about it, I was like, I wonder if I can join. So I clicked join on the WhatsApp group and I joined, and I messaged privately the um the admin administrator. Yeah, the admin for the group because even the even the description of the group said people who are, you know, have left the island and everything, it was very immediate, right? Recent, you know, recent for recent immigrants. And I felt some kind of way about that. I said, well, what about us that it's our heritage and we're proud of who we are, and why can't we join? And they thought about how they were wording it and presenting it, and they were like, No, you're right. And so, because of the conversation, they changed the whole wording for it, and it's more welcoming now for people that it's it's our roots, but we were raising the states or whatever. So it's about just being welcoming and thinking about the many people and all of our different experiences.

SPEAKER_01: 33:46

So you brought up something that you didn't name as such, but I I guess maybe we could call it cultural gatekeeping. Um, and it happens, and you know, I can see both sides. I can see both sides from doing this podcast. So I can see from your perspective that some people are like, you're not Jamaican or you're not Caribbean because you weren't born there. And I had a conversation where someone was like, We're not saying we were born there, we're saying it's our heritage that our parents are from the region or this particular country. So we have that. But at the same time, I've seen conversations where people who were born in the region felt like people who weren't born in the region were doing too much and making them feel like, how could you be born and you don't know this or you're not doing that? Like, so I guess I want to step back and let's talk about what these two groups are trying to do because there essentially it's a love for a place, it's just how each other is made to feel by not a whole group of people, but one person made them feel a particular way. And so now everybody gets labeled as such. So let's talk about what this behavior really is, and how we can be more uh, I guess, more self-aware and how we can have these tough conversations. It's not gonna be easy because I I know some people get cussalt really quick. But let's talk about that because I'm sure that's something you've experienced. And in the people that you work with, I'm sure they'll have some of that cultural gatekeeping experience. So let's talk about what that how that shows up in your work, how we can address that for with those, you know, for those who are rooted firmly in the culture and how people who are trying to reconnect can usually try to address this, if this makes sense.

SPEAKER_00: 36:02

Yeah, it does. I love that and having that conversation. So yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01: 36:10

Yeah, so yeah. So what would you how would you help someone you're working with to reconnect with culture address cultural gatekeeping from people who are like, well, you're not? How what's what's like some strategies or how they can have conversations with someone about how they're just really trying to connect with their culture?

unknown: 36:32

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:34

Yeah, I advise people when they enter new spaces, regardless of that's their heritage, that it's always best to enter in in silence and listen. Listen first. Um, I think it's very important to listen more than you speak, especially initially, because you have to, if you go to a networking meeting or something, you want to get a feel of the room, the lay of the land, the people, and you don't want to misspeak. And it's the same thing, you don't want to misspeak, and you want to see how people are, how they feel, so then you can know how to position yourself. Um, it's uh important because we're walking, even though this is who we are, we have a right to be there. We're walking into something, a space that we don't know. The nuances, how people interact with things are said, and sometimes people do do too much, but that's not out of disrespect, it's out of just excitement, a love of and wanting to be a part of something. So I just I advise initially to go in and to listen and then to take baby steps, right? To walk in and to share your story and who you are. I don't I don't have a problem with sharing my story with anyone. So you know up front who I am, what I'm about, and why I'm here. I think if we enter spaces like that, listen first, share who you are, let people know what you're interested in, what you're doing, why you're here, you want to reconnect, you want to learn, you want to be friend, you want to do these things, then I think people are more willing to engage with you. You know, for me being an adoptive mother, I'm always in spaces for her. And it's fine now. But when I first started doing it, I'm like, hi, this is who I am, this is my daughter, this is why I'm here, those things. And then people are giving, giving, giving. Um, and the same thing with me living in Mexico, right? Um, and have to do the same thing because I'm entering someone else's space, someone else's home. So you have to be respectful of that.

SPEAKER_01: 39:27

Um, why do you think I I don't have the answer. I just I'm just curious and I want to ask you, maybe you have some thoughts. Why do you think all of us, whether you're already firmly anchored or you're reconnecting, why are we why do you think we have to prove that this is our heritage, you know, or prove that we're oh, I'm I'm very Jamaican or I'm very, you know, Dominican or very why do you feel because I feel like we all do that, you know, depending on the space that we're in. Um and I I'm I'm just curious. I'm I I I see it, and I'm just curious if you have any thoughts about it. If you don't, it's okay. Um, but I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00: 40:17

Yeah, my thoughts for people of the diaspora is that I believe so much has been taken from us, and I I believe that because we feel like we're always, you know, fighting to keep what we have, that this is something that's mine, right? And I don't want to share it, right? And and even if it's irrational, because they're who you are, they're part of the heritage as well, even if it's irrational, it's kind of like, well, you were already, you had something else. I don't want what you have, you can't want what I have either. So I really do believe it's because so much has been taken from us, and we're trying to hold on to it, and we don't know how to let go of some of it for fear that it's all going to be taken. No matter if you look like me. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 41:31

Yeah, yeah. I could, I could, I could see that. I could see that now. Closing the loop on how you got into this in the first place, your daughter. Um, are you would you say that you've been successful in helping her reconnect with her habish roots or Ethiopian roots?

SPEAKER_00: 41:55

My daughter. Um, well, she's a teenager now. So when I say woo, that's coming from a mom of a teen girl.

SPEAKER_01: 42:01

Listen, listen, you're talking to you talking, hey, I know what you're talking about already.

SPEAKER_00: 42:07

She wears me out. But people people ask me, does she know that she's adopted because she happens to look like me? And my mother, my aunt used to say all the time, if you feed them enough, they all start to look like you anyway. So but who she is and the adoption in our home, it was never a secret, it was never a bad word, it was just what it was. So from day one, she knew. And day one, I had um books, music. Every Friday we went to a restaurant. I mean, it was always something. I would look for cams, it was always something. And when she decided, you know how kids do when they say, Oh, I don't, I don't like that, I don't want to listen to that, I don't want to do that. When she tried to push against it, I pushed harder towards it. Because I told her what we weren't going to do is I was not going to be raising a child who was ashamed of their roots and where they came from. So I pushed harder and she hated it, of course, being a little kid. But now, as a teen, she um she is very proud of being Ethiopian, of being from the only place in Africa that was not colonized. Of, you know, she tells me that she's a real uh African. I'm a fake African. She says, your roots are too mixed. You're not, you know, I like see, there you go. Um, and you know, she'll she's learned, she's taking emark lessons now. Um, Um, she listens to the music and she can sing along with it, even though she doesn't speak it. She has a very good grasp of the pronunciation and memory. She's very good with languages, she loves the food. I mean, everything. So she's very proud now, and she doesn't even care that she's adopted. She tells everybody she doesn't care, you know. It just is who it is. And I told her that we all have some trauma, whatever it is growing up. I said, but this will not be your story. You can lay on the couch for something else that your mother did something else, but it won't be this. So, yeah, so she's very proud, but it is hard. It is very hard because look, I started a whole company for her. What I do, I started for my daughter, right? I left corporate America and all these things and started for her. And she, when when she tells me she doesn't remember something or she doesn't know something, or when someone asks her a question and she acts like she doesn't know anything, I look at her like, what? I'm like, we need to go back to Ethiopia 101, do we? You know? So um, yeah, so it it is hard. It is for people who have um children from who have different backgrounds or from other countries, or if whether you're trying to get them um more in tune with you know your heritage and both both parents from there have heard stories that their kids don't want to speak any of the language, they don't want to know anything, and they're around it all the time, right? It is it is really hard, and you have to be super deliberate about it and really don't back down about those things. Um, my mother did the same thing with me when I went to college because I wasn't raised around a lot of black youth um people, I didn't want to go to an HBCU. I was like, I don't want to go to HBCU, be around those dumb kids. My mother was like, really, guess where you're going to college? You're going to an HBCU. She pushed the other way, and I didn't have any options. And it was the best thing I ever did. You know, becoming a mom and going to Howard was like, they were the two best things I've ever done.

SPEAKER_01: 46:22

So you said that your mom um you didn't want to go to Howard and HBCU? You your mom pushed you. You were like, I don't want to go to school with those dumb kids, right? And your mom pushed you. So I there are a couple questions that are coming out of that. Up until that time, based on your conversation, it seemed like there wasn't an intentional connection to culture, right? Um, what would you say made your mom choose to to push you to go to Howard or any HBCU that you were can that that she wanted you to go to at the time?

SPEAKER_00: 47:03

Well, because although we weren't deep into our um heritage, it was just who we were, we were always black, right? And my mother wanted me to be proud of being black, you know, the larger picture, and didn't want me to go and walk through the world um with a false sense of identity or lack of identity because she knew how difficult it was for a black woman. So she wanted me to be strong in that, not be wishy-washy. So that was why she did that. Everything else has been on my own after I did that.

SPEAKER_01: 47:53

No, I mean, that's amazing because then your adult self kind of looking back at you, the younger version of you, your comment about no, I want to go to school with those kids. Like, what does your adult self feel about your younger self at that point? And does that help you put yourself in the shoe of your daughter who might have some pushback when you are trying to connect her to our Ethiopian um culture?

SPEAKER_00: 48:21

Absolutely. Um, my adult self. I can look at my younger self and I still feel sad for my younger self because I remember how badly I wanted to have something to connect to, right? I knew who I was, but I didn't know who I was, if that makes sense, right? Um, and I wanted those things. Like I wanted to be able to say, yes, I'm this, and I can, you know, I know this, or I've been here, or I can speak another language, or whatever. I needed an identity because growing up in the Midwest, my family was so different than other families. But yet, and still I didn't understand why, and I didn't know. So with my daughter, I did not want her to, I mean, she's different, right? And she has a different background, and I did not want her to be ashamed of who she was. And what I've learned is that you know, the more that you start putting yourself in those situations and learning about who you are, accepting it and owning it, the more confidence you gain, not just in your heritage, where you're able to then be a part of larger things and speak up and do more things, not just in that, but in who you are in general. And then you talk about people gatekeeping or asking the questions, you can effectively like have conversations with them and kind of um hit back, if you will, not in a mean way, but like I have so many things that I've learned. And I'm gonna tell you one thing that I learned about my heritage is I knew when my great-grandmother went to New York that she had a church, and she was Seventh-day Adventist, and she ran a church, she was the leader of a 70 Adventist church in Harlem, and she was one of the first black um nurses at Harlem Hospital, because she was a nurse in Jamaica, and then I also learned that my family was one of the founding families of 70 Adventists in Jamaica, you know. So the more I learn, the more I just feel like I don't, for lack of a better word, the more ammunition I had.

SPEAKER_01: 51:08

Right. You can you can stand your ground that this is my culture, and you know, I belong here. So absolutely wonderful. So um as we wrap up here, because in the after show, I have some more questions for you. What is the takeaway you want to leave the audience with?

SPEAKER_00: 51:28

I want people to know that they can change their story at any time, and that their heritage is theirs, right? It doesn't matter how much you know what your DNA percentage is, how large or small, this is who you are, and you have a right to it. Don't let people tell you otherwise, don't feel bad about it. This is your birthright. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01: 52:09

All right, so we're gonna go into after show. I'm gonna make sure I put everything uh about how to connect with Tammy in the show notes. But Tammy, thank you for coming on the show, enlightening us about you know the work you do in helping others reconnect to culture. And this is by far fascinating because, you know, a lot of us, or at least my audience, you're connected to culture and you know, but we know that this exists and you're putting a face and a name and words to the experience of others that we may not, you know, often come across. So thank you for that. And as I love to say at the end of every episode, what good.