Why We’re Sharing This Crossover

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Carrie on Friends, the Caribbean-American Experience. I'm your host, Carrie Ann. You may or may not know that I'm also the founder of Breadfruit Media. And through Breadfruit Media, I produce other podcasts. One of those podcasts is Reels and Rhythms, which I co-host with my very good sister, Michaela of Style and Vibes. On Reels and Rhythms, we talk about movies, documentaries, and what's on TV or the screen through a Caribbean lens. We don't only review Caribbean movies or Caribbean projects. We talk about a lot of projects, but through the perspective of being people of Caribbean heritage, because we view things a little differently. So today I'm bringing you an episode from Reels and Rhythms so you can experience what we talk about on that show. In this episode, we're talking about Queenie. Queenie came out in 2018-2019, and it was a very popular novel. And it is by Candace Carti Williams. And the mini-series adaptation is available on Hulu and Disney Plus. So in this conversation is all other ladies of Breadfruit Media. Yeah, have myself, Michaela, and Alexandria. Dr. Alexandria, the host of Strictly Facts. I had to say doctor because she just gets our PhD. So we, you know, get used to adding the doctor to our name. And so in the episode, we're breaking down the book versus the show, the Caribbean-British identity at the center of it. Um, we talk about what the series gets right, what the book does better, and why the story matters for us as a diaspora audience. All right. So check out Reals and Rhythms. Hello, Massivan

Meet The Hosts And Guest

SPEAKER_00 2:06

crew. Welcome back to another episode of Reels and Rhythms brought to you by Carry On Friends in partnership with the style to the vibes and breadfruit media. And me well excited today because we have our special guest, Miss Hal Hexandria. So, Michaela, big up the people them. And then Alexandra, you're not a stranger. So ill up the people them after Michaela. Run it, Michaela.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Wagon family, Wagwan. Welcome, Alexandria. You're no stranger, but always love to have you on and chatting with you. It's always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yes, Wagwan, Wagwan people. Thank you, Carrie and Michaela, for having me. Um, it's a pleasure always to be over here on the Reels and Rhythms side.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Yes, yes. So, like I said, um very excited because we are about to talk about the big bud Queenie. Um, and it's also a good way for us to wrap up this season of Reels and Rhythms. It's been a festive season. I I think we're literally going to wrap up the season on a bang based on our Queenie and our friend named the Dagwan. Well festive, well festive. Well, since Hi Hard Hunty in the room, Michaela's Junior Hunty, right? So we're talking about Queenie. Alexandra, why don't you tell the Massivant crew what Queenie is about, and then we'll just jump in.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

Sure.

What Queenie Is About

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Um, so originally Queenie was a book published by Candace Cartier Williams in 2019. Recently, as of June 7th, I believed Hulu debuted um their mini-series of sorts, I guess you would call it, um, which was a translation of the book into a miniseries, of course. Um, obviously, as we know, with anything that's a translation from a book to a movie or TV show, it's not exactly 100% the contents of the book translated into the show, but overall, it is a story about a young adult coming of age, Jamaican British woman, um, and her journey just in her 20s, discovering herself. I think there are great topics in terms of self-worth and self-love, um, her negotiations with her relationships. Obviously, there's stuff related to family issues and generational traumas, um, sexuality and consent, but really just her sort of evolution and trying to understand herself amidst what can be called chaos. Um, we might just call it life and figuring out yourself in your 20s, which I think as somebody in her 20s can be a crazy time sometimes, but yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Michael, I'm gonna come back to you, I'm gonna be honest, right? So, me never read the book. Um, I went back into my audible history because you know I listen to the book, and I probably got to an hour and 45 minutes and then I stopped reading the book. I said, I can't manage. And full disclosure, I'm way past where Queenie was in this book. So I had to take junior Auntie Michaela advice and put myself back into my 20s to see if I can relate to a certain degree with Queenie and what happened there. I mean, outside of where she is and what's happening, I think, like you said, Alexandria, the themes are um, regardless of age group and generation, some of them. Um, but I I love that you read the book and Michaela and I didn't, because this is a a flip from when we talked about black cake, when I read the book and was big, bad, and hangry, huffing and puffing like the wolf about what is right and what wasn't a proper translation. So this is a different um position to be in. Michaela, you wanted to say something?

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Yeah, so I I have the book. I meant to read it before you know it came out, and I actually started it this year. So I got through what was episode one of the the series, um, and really just time. So I had I had the physical book, so that's where I went wrong. I bought the physical book a while ago, and I bought a copy for my sister. But physical books, I love them. I don't always have the time to read them. Um, so I don't have the the the same context as Alexandria. So leaning on you to tell us about you know the accuracy specifically. Um, but I did enjoy, you know, seeing it come to life, and especially with uh Candace Cardi Williams just you know coming off of Champion and the excitement that we saw around that and other British actors really taking um front stage, if you will, um, in in this particular series as well. So I'm excited for the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, we're not going through it like how we did champion episode by episode. So big takeaway from the series, Alexandra. Your takeaway. Did you like it? Did you not like it? Let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

And I'm talking the series and the book or just the series.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

So what up on your chest? Get the R on your chest.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Well, before I even talk about this series, I love the book. First off, the book D pretty. I know you guys have seen the cover if you've owned the book. The book was beautiful, even if it never, I mean, obviously, as a Jamaican, I'm gonna be biased and say, Yeah, man, true said is me. But outside of that, I would have bought the book probably regardless, just because it was cute and then it come in different color. The original was orange and then orange, yeah. Yes, but then she made it debuted in different colors

Book Vs Series First Impressions

SPEAKER_01 7:50

too. So it was just a beautiful book, I think, cover-wise. Um, them said don't judge a book by its cover, but I was a fan regardless as a black woman. Um, I was younger than Queenie, I believe, when it first debuted, or probably around the exact same age. And so for me, it was laughs. I remember reading it during my lunch break at work, and I was dead with laugh. Um, and ironically, I was at the time in a lot of like black women's reading groups, and you know, there's bookstagrammers and all these people to follow online, and a lot of black women hated the book. I can't remember at the time now whether they were women, you know, of Caribbean descent or from the Caribbean, or if it was people abroad, etc. But I felt like to some degree the book got a lot of hate, or just you know, people saying maybe they couldn't finish it because it was cringy or whatever to them. And I felt like it was an unfair representation, especially um at least the spaces and the the people that you know I heard from. I'll speak to specifically those spaces as opposed to everybody. But I enjoyed it. I think for some people it might have been uh, you know, there's a lot of messiness, but as I said, right, life is messy. Um, and I think sometimes we want things to be tied up in a bow in a certain way and fairy tale endings and stuff, which I don't think that was necessarily the point of it, right? It's that we're along our journey and we're figuring out as we go. It doesn't need to, you know, suddenly we see queenie like girl bossing and you know what what may have you in her 40s and married or whatever it would have looked like for some people. And so I really enjoyed it. I thought there were moments, of course, that I identified with as a fellow person of Jamaican descent and understanding how our dynamics are with family of different generations. Um, and I thought it was funny, it's definitely a you know comical in certain instances, and I think it brought a lot of joy to me in reading it. So I was, of course, very excited to see when the TV show was picked up and developed by Hulu, um, which I also did enjoy. Now, of course, right, um, there are a few differences that between the book and the show that we will get into um potentially in our discussion today. But I think it really did it well, especially, you know, when we have to understand that, you know, you can't translate everything over from a whole book of 200 odd pages to just an eight-episode mini-series, and the episodes are like 24 minutes each, give or take, right? Um, so I think all those things considered, and especially I think the fact that what I was um listening to in a interview, you know, somebody was interviewing Candace Cartier Williams, her attention to detail and realizing that the book was released in 2019. So there were um particular things at the height of 2019 systemically or you know, going on in the world that she had to change and tone down a little bit for the sake of obviously the limited time for the series, but also 2019 is not 2024. Um, and those things need to be attended to if we're really going to tell a story in a meaningful way. And so I think both were done really well. I also always love when the writers of a book are kept, you know, as part of the production. So she co-produced it um as well in terms of the TV show. And so yeah, I thought it was a great series and one that I definitely enjoyed watching.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

It's interesting because I didn't realize like people hated the book. You know, I got it because I saw Jamaican British and I said, okay, we're going to support this. But it wasn't that I hated the book. So I lost patience for Queenie vacillating between a Teleman or a phenotyman. Like for my patient was done. Like Queenie, come on, teleman.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Like and I think a lot of people felt that way.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

I was just like, I, if me I forgot through this, to the rest of the book, make a fling with the book. That's how I felt. So I was like, you know what? Let me just pause here. And also where I was at the time, you know, it's 2019. You know, I have a one-year-old, so the patience to to to sit this through and you know, go through it with Queenie wasn't there. That's kind of where I was. I didn't hate it. It was just that I didn't have the patience with the character to go through. And even in the series, you know, my husband was watching it for me and him say, because I binged it. And he said, you know what? After three episodes, no, I'm done. So um it was just all the shenanigans because in three episodes we got a lot. So he was just like, Yeah, I haven't had enough. But it's very interesting that people have this feedback. So thanks for sharing that. Michaela, run it.

SPEAKER_03 12:44

I I I could understand why that would be the case. That's a little bit more challenging to read, but I think that that attitudinally played out well on screen because essentially she's having this thought. Whereas if you're reading it, it's kind of like hurry up and get to that. Whereas I already kind of identified it as a slower start, but so was Black Cake. I feel like I didn't really know the premise of black cake, and I listened to the audiobook, so I could see how people would either get lost in the beginning. The other thought as I was watching it is it really reminded me a lot of um the Gabrielle Union um series on BET being Mary Jane. I feel like this is Mary, this is what Mary Jane kind of would have been like in her 20s. Messy all over the place, not fully thought out. And that's kind of what you get is like the diarrhea of all the responsibilities and the excitement that your 20s bring. And I think that especially as we get older and we get wiser and we understand we seem so far removed from the messiness that is the 20s. And, you know, fortunately, you know, I could live my life offline where it, you know, doesn't impact. Um, they don't really get into that in Queenie. It's more of like her and her friends and the group chat thing. Um, so we don't see that messiness evolve as as much. And, you know, I could totally relate to some of the things, not all the things, but some of the things that she was experiencing. And then I'm curious how the sexual fetetization of black women came across in the book versus the series, because it seemed to be identified very early for me as a viewer, um, by like episode two, if not one. Um, which that didn't really become very clear. Like I ended time point-wise at the end of chapter one. It didn't feel that way in the book necessarily. So I'm curious how that really played out. So, Alexandria, I'm gonna lean on you with that. But that was one of the clear themes, I think, that I truly identified very early in the series.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Along that vein, my husband was watching it and he was like, She only date white men? Like, what was what was happening when I first read the book? I was like, Oh, she's in the UK. I guess, you know, this is part of the thing. But as I was watching the series, I was like, yo, you know, it it was a legit question because she didn't seem to blink our butter eye at um any of the other dudes.

SPEAKER_03 15:27

But I think it made sense given her history with her stepfather, right? And her dad disowning, like her dad not owning up to her, her father her stepdad being a black man, and she is thinking she's so much like her mom. The easiest way for her to not be like her mom is to date outside of her race and do something different. So I immediately caught on, but from the interactions, it just felt like such a fetish for all of the men that she dated. So it is not you know, really like that she was dating outside of her race, it's the way that they just like identified her body as this exotic thing that thing, period, that they could utilize for their pleasure and pleasure only. And it was just very like, ugh, I just felt icky watching it.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

It definitely was a big part of the book as well, something that I definitely noted, and I think something that also may have created some of the turmoil in responses to the the novel as

Fetishization And Dating Outside Race

SPEAKER_01 16:35

well. Um, and even in certain discussions I've had with friends who, you know, started it and said they couldn't even bother finish it, right? They were like, Yeah, you know, the fetish, like it was just a getting a little bit too much for them, right? Um, and so I stuck it out. I do try to finish novels. Um, but yeah, I think that was something that did definitely carry over into the show as well.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

What was interesting for me was the switch, right? Did we remember what really triggered her to just say, all right, let me follow the friend and just be liberated? Was that ever clear? Because it went from her being prudish about her relationship with Tom and what they did to all out. She she's she's all out.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Did we remember why she's like, it was his lack of response, I think, that really kind of pushed her over the edge. Like he wouldn't respond to her text messages. And then when he responded, it was kind of like um, we need a clean break. That means no communication. So after she's essentially sent him this very sexy picture that she thinks is gonna draw out a different kind of response, she doesn't get the response that she wants, and she's just like, Oh, well, I'm gonna show him. I'm not over here wasting this dress. Like in her mind, she's thinking that Tom is out here thinking about her and her feelings, and he clearly wasn't. He just was just like.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

I think that's what I didn't like about the book. The tone in which Tom talked down to our life, it was very condescending. I mean, I say, you know what? God knows who he makes for who, and up you know who for frightened. So let me just listen.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

But there's an entire context of their relationship that we don't see play out, so we don't know how they met, when they were good, like what that relationship was like. You know, he expressed the need for her to open up, and she couldn't. And essentially, she probably couldn't open up because one, Tom couldn't relate, and two, she couldn't truly verbalize it for herself, and he wasn't really going to be patient with her in that regard.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

All right, so let's talk about our friend. Which one's a favorite character? No, no, yes, not not a work friend, another uni friend. What's your name? Jessica.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

How do you pronounce her name? Uh that now I don't even remember. Because it's not spelled how it's no, it's spelled like KY.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah. Either way, the friend. The friend was funny. She was like, Yo, I had on these boots, and the guy come tap me to let's say Red Luxe. She was killing me, and then the dude came up and was just like, Yeah, I got a new job. Um, clear something like that. I was yo, remember, she was like, Okay, so you get a discount.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

He's like 50% just for you. She's like, I can't work with that, and then roll her eyes, so she's gonna pick up the food.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

No, but the part where she said before was like, she's she's like, Yo, Queenie, I saw this guy, and I was like, please don't let me look, please don't let me look at it. Look like she works out one bank and she gonna pull up a bank account and she said, No money not in there. She's like, mm-mm. I'm like, wow, I I loved her character.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Even the way she comes in uh uh in at the office and different fear.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

I hope I was just like, Yes, that that by the way, don't you know that what that's what's his name from champion? Yes, the the the the the co-worker, the white co-worker who who telled me that married um the brother baby mother, the baby mother to to to the US, yeah. Yeah, yeah, Bosco Baby Mother, Osbar, yeah, our boyfriend. Yes, I was like, what, you know, but I I liked her energy and I I just know people like that, and it was good to see. Um, I think at one point though, it was hard for me to really understand until the very end the issue with Queenie and our mother. Because we knew it was something with the mother. I think it took a very long time to get to what really is the issue. And um I wish they had kind of brought that in or sped it up a little bit to get to that. And then because I think where they left it at the end, then could I give you a little bit more? So instead of stretch out the issue with the mother, kind of speed up what the issue with the mother, and and here's why. I think we all hear how people have trauma with their mother and grandmother, right? What we don't see enough of is that path or that process to reconciliation, and that's what I would want to see more of. Not like I don't like you. We get that part, right? Let's see what it looks like when there's this process to reconciliation. And I didn't see that. I I I wanted to see more of that. So I'm not sure if they got to that in the book, but that's what I would love, would have loved to see.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

What was really the issue with her mom? Like, I don't think that there was one thing. Can we discuss? Because even by the end, I kind of have an idea. So the the mother is a jacket. No, no, no, but that's not but that that's not the issue. Yes, the mother is a jacket, yes. But that's not the mother's issue, that's not her issue with her mom. All right. So all right, let's back up.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Big up to Jeffrey. Right. So big up to Jeffrey from Fresh Prince Abelia. Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Albert, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Right? And so Grandma gets one letter from our little spoogy back home, and the letter come, and she eyed the letter from the new, you know, Jeffrey.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Winfred I have name Winford.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Anyway. So it would assume that she came up pregnant, um, based on what Missy Mina read the book. She came up pregnant as she has a baby and the Wilfred. Wilfred. Wilfred.

SPEAKER_02 22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

She has the baby, and the woman said, Oh, this baby light, right? So we already know what you say. Now the mother growing up, there was a big age gap, obviously, between the big sister and she. And from all intents and purposes, she seemed to, they seemed to have a good life. It all spiraled out of control when the big man did put her eye upon the mother, and the mother feel like, oh, I'm beautiful, I'm fabulous. And he says he's going to marry me. And the sister says, What am I wondering with you? Oh, my art girl. Um, paraphrasing. Um, and then she comes back, I'm pregnant. And you have to remember that the mother is still young. So, as a teenager, you are madly in love with this person. You you rebel against the system, oh, in love me, and you swear say Imago left the wife. You understand? So the age and her understanding that this was never going to happen. No, you have a baby, you wrap up postpartum emotion, bangarang, age, all of that. And so I don't know if her mother was ever good. She just learned to survive and be a mom until the next man comes in her life, essentially. And when the next man comes in, I guess maybe she wanted to show she was really devoted because she maybe she didn't want to show the baby father say I'm, you know, my number one, I'm devoted, or whatever it is. And then he was an abuser and all these things. That's what I got from the little piece piece that mommy gets. And and I have a very, very big imagination. So all if I never saw you go, or somebody did a putting the piece thing in there.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

That's definitely what I got. And very interestingly enough, we didn't get as much of that storyline in the book, um, which I found is an interesting take. There was obviously, you know, conflict between Queenie and her relationship with her mom, which obviously then translated to the whole family on the whole, and obviously, you know, Queenie's grandmother wanting to be like, yo, and her auntie, of course, obviously wanting to be like Linkemara, Linkemara, and all of these things. Um, but we didn't get the extent of the storyline between the mother, her relationship, the stepfather, and all of these things in the novel. So that was an interesting angle for me between the differences between the novel and this the TV show.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

And it still wasn't even clear. The mother, I mean, the mother decision for get to a separate apartment and put her in the apartment is wild. But what led to that, we never really get clear. We assume so there was maybe some abuse in there, and we're not even sure why she got money. Like that wasn't clear. So again, it leaves it to my imagination to fling in all of the blanks them, you know, power what could have happened. Maybe in skemar, or pension minunu, or so, you know, so but it was a sizable enough money, so it we we we just didn't get that aspect of it.

SPEAKER_03 25:59

Yeah, I I agree. It's like there there were still like a lot of um open-ended ideas around the relationship with her mom and why she um avoided, but sometimes it really isn't that complicated, I I guess. Is it's really just a series of things that as children you can't get over. Um, as a viewer looking in, you know, you kind of think, well, okay, she has abandonment issues. Yes, there was abuse there, um, but we don't know what type of child she was or how she reacts to things. So for some, it may seem like hurry up and react, but we've seen her. She's very slow to react, she's internalizes a lot of things, and that seems to have always been part of her character, and they allude to her mom being the same way the grandparents do, um, in terms of personality differences between the way um the way they kind of thought about strength. And I thought, you know, the way that the grandmother really encapsulated her speech at the end around um what strength looks like and how it looks different. And and it, I'm like, man, that that's a moment plenty, plenty pinning on guests. So I I I think it was almost like a um a nice nod to those who have similar relationships, but will never get the closure of having that with their own parent. At least they can kind of see it and what it could look like um from that perspective. And I don't think that Queenie and her mom necessarily have a closure conversation, it just is what it is, and you don't really know. She does say, I want to have a relationship with her. I'm gonna talk to her at some point, I think.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

But that's what I was saying. Like, I wanted to see more of that struggle back and forth versus I don't want to talk to my mom, right? Because we've all seen that. What I want to see is more of what we saw to the end. Initially, she was steadfast mana tet the money. Then she decided she go and tet the money. And then you you started to see the, you know, she lean in and she pull back, she lean in, then she pull back, because that's really what it is, right? On this thing. It's not like, oh, we've cleared the air and now we're good again. No, and a site work, but it would be good

Family Trauma And The Mother Rift

SPEAKER_00 28:35

to see how that is played out on screen. So I want to switch gears a little bit. Um, we did talk about, you know, the sexual fetish of the black woman. I don't really want to go too much into that because I think hyper-focusing on that takes away from some of the other themes that were also in the series. How she was treated while she was in the hospital, and you know, like they're asking her questions. And some of them was like, Really? Is this the question you're gonna ask me? The lack of bedside manners and care into how she was. So we see that play out in the UK here in a medical facility, and how she was trying to be seen at work. Now, granted, Queenie had, if meowing queenie manager, I don't know how much pip me gonna put queenie pan, but queenie just, you know. But those issues aside, you saw that she was trying to progress in some way at work, and those opportunities were just like, all right, they're there. Sit, go go back to what we hired you for, type things. And so those were themes that were very important because they all played a role in her spiral, for lack of a better word. Because in her mind, not no good, nothing good is happening, not at work, not with the man, mommy, whatever. So I I just wanted to call out like those are two critical themes that I saw that could be overshadowed.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Me really didn't want to know why Queenie showed up to work, so like she never have no broad opsie. She go in our t-shirt and then try and pitch new ideas. Like, come my girl, your co-worker dressed for the for the job. Like, come on, come on, come on. I was, I mean, it's probably part of her character. Um, and I know it's not like the sole focus, but it was just those little, like, if you're not gonna get the role, don't let, you know, your unprofessionalism or you know, when she did Avon the the scap, Lad God, Lad God, I said, no, no, queenie, no, no. And it's unfortunate, but they're not gonna take you seriously. They didn't even touch on on that, you know, they just touched on her attitude and her behavior and her not getting the role. But so I think she also played a part in her not getting the opportunities that she truly wanted because she came and then she came with the pitch, it was half hazard, it wasn't thought out. She was late to meetings, late to work, you know, she had a lot going on, but she was still trying to um have moments at work because that's probably the only thing that she could focus on at the time. But that was the only aspect in which I was disappointed with her in was her approach to work. Yes, they were wrong, but also she didn't put her best foot forward either.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

And she said it. There's that scene where um right before she gets drunk at the kind of like happy hour work thing that they had, um, or right before, and the her boss, her manager comes up to her and is like, yo, take some time off, take a long weekend or whatever. And she was like, I can't be by myself because that's when the demons start to come in. So I need to come to work and stay busy. Um, one thing I did think was an interesting sort of difference in terms of work life and like, you know, her pitches and things. So obviously um her pitches were definitely black focused, right? She was talking about um wanting to have various discussions whether it was, you know, black women who and black people who are critical um or activism and you know, things to that nature. And I saw definitely noted the sort of not necessarily downplay, but compared to the book, it was written um because it debuted in 2019, right? So it's sort of written, I'm assuming, at the sort of peak of Black Lives Matter, you know, global protest going on, um, pre-COVID, of course. And obviously, it's still sort of in the realm um that she was discussing in terms of what her pitches were for the job here and what she wanted, she hoped to to put out, but they were lesser to an extent, right? It was um it was a tremendous part of the work. I mean, work regardless was still not necessarily going well for her in the novel either. Um, but I I had noted definitely the way that time period played and how it shifted the angles of the the book versus the movie or the TV show rather.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

And then look what she leave and do our own look a series and our our boss come back and say, Oh, this is wonderful. Like, like she hasn't been pitching those ideas to you for how long, from when time, and all of a sudden now that she's done it by herself, it's you know, because she can visually see the reaction that it's getting. It's not necessarily that it was an important story to tell, but she she knew the the power of social media and that the story and the position in which she told the story. Um, but that's essentially what Queenie was trying to offer in her work on a regular basis, and it wasn't until it was recognized externally that they all of a sudden saw value in her work.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

All right. So, what was the funniest moment in the series?

SPEAKER_03 34:13

I know my husband was hollering when the brown youth, um, because he felt he had all the oh the destroyer, then it was just like wow. I'm like, we all talk about oh oh the yes, yes, the the Indian guy named his um personal parts him name it the defender lad or destroyer something. I was just like I destroyer, and him not him not damage nothing, and only thing I damage I marriage.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

One thing was funny is the woman out of street with the mic, Jesse there.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

She did not catch a break. No, I was just like, Queenie, what everywhere she went. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Um what else? There were there was definitely some other moments, but the woman punished in the club.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

That was a good scene, too. Um, so there's a scene in the club where you know, in a lot of ways, I think there are a lot of things that the that the TV show tried to nail on, right? Whether it's gentrification and you know, it just didn't hit the nail. It wasn't as hard. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't as hard hitting, but there were points that could be drawn out. So there's a scene when um they're at the club and sort of get into a disagreement. I'll say I don't want to give away too much.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

We're not a spoiler show, a spoiler show.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

All right then. So since we're doing spoilers, there's a scene in the club where you know everybody at full giadem, the cloself or whatever, and queenie. Um you know, they've always described her throughout the show as we sort of going back to the fetishization as being curvacious. Um, but then a white woman in the club just decides.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Come on, guys, big butty queenie.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Um, but then a white woman in the club decides to grab her butt. Um, and obviously, you know, naturally she has a reaction, her friend has a reaction, and they end up being the ones that get kicked out of the club um because the white girl does her very Karen-esque thing and start ball down the place and says she hit me, she hit me, and one bagating. Um, I mean, structural issues aside, I did think that's that scene was funny.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah, but it goes back to fetishizing the black woman's body, isn't limited to just a male gaze, it's also female. Um and then weaponized against her. Exactly. Exactly. Let's talk about therapy. So we this doesn't have to be a long discussion. Therapy, when grandma have to get her a therapy and grandma they quarrel about the money she has to spend. Listen, if nobody never grandmother will complain about how much money they have to spend, if we can pick you up somewhere. So them coming around to her doing therapy because the grandmother was very stern about family business to stay family business. And again, it's always the grandfather that's cool and just be like, you know, there has to be a character that is um a symbol of calm, and that was the grandfather and a voice of reason sometime, other than the time when Queenie says she'll go, she'll go beat and the grandfather said remember the water bill because Queenie loves it, but if that is not a very Caribbean thing, remember the light, turn off the light. Yes, remember the water bill.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

But I did yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

No, I was like, there were a lot of like chuckle and laugh out loud moments like that throughout the so I don't I don't see one that like hysterically stands out to me. Um, but there were also a lot of good tender moments. So even you know, as Queenie's taking a bath and her grandma comes in and is like washing, like she's like it's intrusive, but she doesn't mind because it's somebody, you know, that like it's a moment that she's having with her grandma, like and she's and the grandmother's like, me see everything we have already, right? In true granny form with no granny, yes, yes, yes. So I love the moments between her and her grandparents and even her cousin, like they were all very well-rounded characters to kind of uh bring out Queenie's life and her family. Um, and it showed like how much support that she had, even if they didn't really understand her, they were still very supportive of who she was, and they gave her her space. Um, but they knew when to push and they knew when to back off. So I thought that was kind of sweet. There were a lot of sweet moments like that.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

The grandmother was my favorite character though. No one the auntie said, Never dear with a gem, a Gemini man, she said, never deal with that Gemini man. And then Queenie said, Are you using Gemini? Right, right, you know, and at one point to the end, Auntie uh uh do a whole sermon over the food, and the grandmother go, Amen, like cut this, cut it shot. But I did like those elements where family is not perfect, they're all these different characters, but these caster characters, you know, they they are a familial unit, and for different reasons you like them or not. So I did enjoy that.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Yeah, I think the casting was really well, very similar to Championship. Candice Cut to Williams, big up yourself in the Ponti casting, and it it it it was, I don't know, I'm sure she's not the only person who determined that, but I think the casting was done really well too.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

I liked it, I liked it a lot. When she finally have a crush upon the little fella, maybe maybe become in the binge watch it. May I say Frank?

SPEAKER_02 40:17

That's Frank. Was that Frank?

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Frank, yeah, yeah. Like at one point she's like, a pen, okay, to inner your feelings, cause him of possibly Wallypa girl. So again, I feel like either I was watching it and things miss me, or Frank becoming an interest came really fast given the speed of the series.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

No, but her and Frank were friends because she knows Frank through No, I know that, but she never sees him in a more romantic way.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Well, she's been maybe white guys. She's like, But I think there were hints, right? There were hints.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

So like there was drop them hard. She never picked him up.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

She was like, For sure, but like the moment I think there's the scene when um he helps her move, right? And he says something kind of flirtatious to her. I can't remember what exactly. And she's like, Oh, leave it to him now to try to say something. And then, as you said, Carrie, two two is him get a call, and he's like, Yo, babes. So she's like, Oh, it's over, right? Like, never mind then. I'll just keep doing what else, whatever else I'm doing. So, um, to the point that I think we made earlier, there's there was obviously a slowness in Queenie's evolution or um ability to sort of maybe a self-awareness, um, and emotional intelligence as well, that I think might have also been a challenge for people, whether they're reading or watching the the TV show.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

For sure. Um, and I guess the only point I

Work Life Pressure And Medical Care

SPEAKER_00 41:55

have left is oh dear Tom, come back with flowers at the end. Make glass and dash them away. Well, Tom. Um I really wanted to the the satisfaction of saying she's like Tom. No, but she obviously takes the flowers and then dash them away. Make him go back with the flowers. She shouldn't have a tech, but and then we don't see what happened with Frank. If Frank walked off or she claimed Frank and said, Come on, boo. Like, me no, it just segue. I mean, it's like, why deny us the satisfaction? You know, but you can tell us what really happened in the book.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

I mean, there were still even in the book a lot of unknowns in the same way that you're saying you wanted more um from the show as well. I think that was also done intentionally. For me, it was like, I think it would have been too easy to wrap up everything and say, Oh, yeah, man, and now show of yes so and I live great life and sod.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

She tell Tom say, listen, your whole drunk crow, you get new woman quick, right? Tell about a clean break, right? You get new woman, then you come round and can't come show up with flowers at my good good housewarming. Like me, if you tell you, not even one cent, two cent, five cent, a whole hundred dollar bill worth of things. Like him do you want a tracer for exactly?

SPEAKER_03 43:23

He needed a proper telling a proper one, like the friend should have cussed him out. The friend would have given a ride.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Yeah, for sure. She would have done a better job than Queen.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

All right. I guess the last thing, I'm gonna do it just for completeness, but it really matters to me. The friend and the texting them.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

The group message, you mean?

SPEAKER_00 43:45

Yes. The one was say, Oh, she take her man. I'm like, you know, I'm gonna have time for this here, you know. That's me, just I do not. I mean, I said, oh no, match it out. You know, so the girl when they talk to the guy, so oh, oh, she takes your how. Your mats this out. You you never want to share who he was. So how did she know that this guy was like he never make common sense? So ho. Something's like, you know what?

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Midas I bring it up, but I was happy for her response to her when she saw her in the show. In Adi Coffee Shop. She was just like, I'm being kind, but don't don't think we good. You know, I love I love that because it was her setting clear boundaries for um herself and the people in her life. And she wanted her ear to kind of lend and kind of catch up, and she thought that it was just gonna pick up right where it left off. And I think Queenie really sharing that, no, that's not the case. I can show you grace, but you didn't give me the same. And had you not walked into this coffee shop, we probably wouldn't have even had this conversation. So don't even think for a second that I'm about to let you back in. And she ultimately did the same thing with Tom. Of course, she wasn't as dismissive to Tom as she was to where the what if her name? Cassandra. Cassandra. It was Cassandra. Oh, okay. Um, and what one time it did things that Cassandra and Darcy were the same, but it's because they were doing hot yoga in the studio. I was like, oh no, this it's a different girl. What was interesting to me is there, like the fact that she had all of her friends in one group chat. Like, I feel like her best friend should be on one side and then Cassandra and the other one. Because they didn't all seem like they were friends. It seemed odd to me that they were all in a group chat together. Because to me, their friendship nucleus was Queenie. Like they weren't all friends.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

It was a convenient chat for Queenie and nobody else.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Yes, clearly. Clearly. That must have been WhatsApp. Clearly. She's like, I'm just updating everybody all at the same time, one time, because I don't have time to be deliberating in two different group chats, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

But of all of them, is um it's Darcy. I'm gonna keep messing up her name. Is it Chesky or Cheska? Um they those two were close enough to her because they came to her house or they were familiar enough. So yeah, I don't know. But it was interesting.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

So overall, so was Cassandra, she got over the people them all, um Bamit's fan. What was it? Because that was Cassandra's dad's house. That was Cassandra's family's house. So they it's not like them them just become friends. Them them are not. No, no, me not talk, no, may I talk them I come after a yard? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Cassandra was just as close to her, I think, as as Darcy, at least. The way that they framed it, they look closer.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Um, Darcy was the work friend, and at one point Darcy was tired of the miss. Yeah, Darcy was like Darcy.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Darcia Carrie, whatever she be water. Yeah. And everything was very one-sided. It was a one-sided relationship.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:11

There's a scene where Queenie and Darcy are talking about the things about what them do with them, man, or whoever. And as soon as Darcy turned and started tell our business, Queenie was like, okay, cool. But, anyways, um, about this man Pana app when we meet and XYZ. So, yeah, I think you know, it was also a reflecting point in terms of who her friends are, what they do for her, you know, and sometimes there was a transactional basis there depending on the friend.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

And uh Darcy kind of gave her some ice at one point for the new year when she was like, you know, I'm I'm trying to be more focused, and Queenie, I tried telebusiness, and she's just like, you know, I'm I'm just really focused. And she kind of picked that up, but Queenie never really fully get the memo, like when Tom saying need a clean break. So I I do feel like it was um, it's very one-sided. But I also don't know if we're just seeing this that she's needy because the spiral from Tom and everything else. We don't know what their relationship was before everything spiraled out of control. So I'll give her that. Um, while we gave some spoilers, we didn't give away a lot. Like you said, the series had funny moments, but there were some themes in there. I think guys watching this might have a huge issue with the the sex in the series and how much of it there was in the series. It can be jarring to see or experience, but we lose sight of the more important underlying issue there and how black women's bodies are are viewed and portrayed.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

And the negotiation carry, right? Like there's there's the issue of is it okay for me to want to be sexually liberated versus women auntie and granny, I got think bull me and um the all of the negotiations that I think black women have to deal with. Um, and you know, as we said, for a few other things, maybe there weren't

Funniest Scenes Plus Therapy Turn

SPEAKER_01 49:25

things that were as um open or as direct in the TV show because again, I think they had a lot to work with in a limited space of time. Um, but these are all themes that I think if you really sit with the some of the issues at hand that definitely come about.

SPEAKER_00 49:43

Yeah, because even in the scene where grandmother washed her back, I said, No worry, you're not having with Miss C already, right? In that moment, she's naked in the bathtub and grandmother beat her. But when she dressed up as the Playboy bunny or go, grandma says, Jesus, tick. Oi, you know, and it's way wait, she has on clothes. So, so what's the difference between she has on clothes? It looks like a bath suit, but she still has on clothes dress versus you know her naked in the bathtub and you washing her back. So, you know, her having to negotiate that with the auntie going from tell people send out there with Gemini and the quote scriptures in between, like that's uh like you said, is a lot to negotiate about am I, should I, could I, all those things. So I like the series. I think it was funny, as always. I um I feel like we're at a point where wow, we have multiple programming on TV where it's not a full reflection of me in my 20s or at 25, um, or you, but there is Jamaican and Caribbean culture, you know, on screen. It is just really good to see because what I think Candace does well with Queenie and with Champion is like I feel like people don't know how to tell Jamaican and Caribbean stories because they fetishize the Yaman, the ganja spoking, and all the stereotypes around what it is to be a Caribbean or a Jamaican person. At the end of it, we're normal people. And it's just that our culture allows us to react different or tell different stories. Here you see a story of somebody emigrating to another country, the complexities of having two different lives. Most immigrants, we have two lives: the lives back home and the lives that we come here to live. And that creates rich storytelling. And so what I love about the series is just that there's culture in it and very nuanced things, but it's not always about very overt um tropes or um aspects of culture that we see and that allows connectivity, right? Because this is not just for me who born in the region you think of, or children who'll be born here and want to see themselves reflected, right? Um in it, right? You know, um, what does that look like? So um I'm I'm glad we're wrapping up the season on Queenie.

SPEAKER_03 52:21

For me, it's a sitcom. I felt like it's a sitcom that I would be watching, whether it looked like Fresh Off the Boat, Blackish, um Abbott Elementary, where it's situational comedy and it it has real heavy, heavier moments. Whereas um Champion was like a drama, you know, it's a drama series. And so when we look at it from that perspective, like I think both series did a really good job of interweaving Caribbean culture in an authentic way, but staying true to what they were, which was a drama series and a sitcom. Um, both, you know, adapted very differently. So I I I enjoyed it, you know. I think it's um something that I would re-watch, and I found really funny moments and educational moments, and I I think people should really just enjoy it for that sake. Everything doesn't have to be like the biggest explosive best things in sliced bread. We deserve all the different stories. So that's what I loved about this um this series in particular, and uh even without reading the book.

SPEAKER_01 53:29

So I agree with both of you, and I think the fact that we get to we're getting more of also like Black Caribbean British TV awareness, I think, too, which is something I definitely didn't have. I mean, you know, from a historical perspective, and think I have cousins and family that I know are in England, but I until very recently, you know, we have we've had a slew of shows, whether it's Champion and um others that have been covered on Reels and Rhythms, that we're getting more awareness and exposure to black British culture over here on this side of the ocean, which I think is also a great part of us even just understanding who we are as a diaspora, right? Um, there are movies obviously shot in the US or shot in Canada or shot in the region that I'm sure get casted out much farther, um, just geographically, but it's nice to also understand the nuances of black British people um and see Brixton and you know all of these things that you might sort of hear about if you're familiar with the Caribbean diaspora in that way and being able to see them brought to screen, I thought was great, especially for this on this side.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

And I want to shout out, you know, as you you know, as we wrap up, if you're looking for something to do in the summer, the original Caribbean sitcom straight out of London City, which is Desmond's, can be streamed on Amazon Prime. Listen, I love Desmond's the character Pop Pai, you know, it was all centered around a barber shop and it was situational comedy. And I grew up watching that in Jamaica, so it is streaming. Go support it. Um, if you want more Caribbean energy and flavor, I mean, what a way to wrap up Caribbean American Heritage Month. We have variety on screen, we're getting the things them out of Brixton, Leeds, and Birmingham. All right. We do a ratings. Oh, let me back up to everyone.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

So mean never no.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yes, let me explain. Let me explain. So um, oh, I mean, we're gonna go back to the ratings. There were aspects of this series that have reminded me of Harlem.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

I also thought about insecure.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

I definitely could see some insecure in there too. Um, so I really like that. So we came up with this system of when we think of Caribbean entertainment, right? When we want to see, we think of accent. Accent is on a spectrum, right? Because a person in Jamaica has a very different language or in the region, speaks differently from someone who lives in New York. Caribbean people in New York speak very differently from Caribbean people in the Midwest or the South or the West, right? And so we think of accents and, you know, how good do we need to get the accent? And we use the accent to say, well, if you have a walk-on rule and it's a Rastaman, get the accent right, right? Or a nanny, because those are the two characters they love to give us, nanny

Diaspora Representation On Screen

SPEAKER_00 56:45

and Rastaman. And then um we also rate it based on the storyline, right? Is it a strong storyline around a character of Caribbean heritage? So we do character and storyline. Are they strong characters and storyline, really developed and fleshed out for a Caribbean person and not just something then just juk up and just say re, right? And so we said accent, uh it's oh we we could get away on not having a perfect accent, a la Jasmine guy, Harlem, because we think she gets the character of who she's playing, a rich uptone Jamaican woman, um, stush woman, or whatever it is, right? So, with that said, for Queenie, we have accent, character, and storyline, and the it's out of five. So what are you giving it in terms of accent, Alexandria?

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Um, I'd probably give it like a four, five. I mean, you also have the nuance there of them living in the UK. So, you know, somebody who it's different for everybody, right? But somebody who, like her grandmother, has been in the UK for how many over decades or so it's going to the twang. I got twang a little different, but I definitely would give it a four. Michael.

SPEAKER_03 58:06

Uh, I would have to agree. I would say maybe a three and a half. I think Winfred accent was kind of off. The grandfather. I'm from St. Lucia. The aunt and the aunt. He's from St. Lucia, but he's playing in Jamaican, so that's why I gotta like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

Hi heart agree with you, Michaela, on that.

SPEAKER_03 58:29

Yeah, yeah. The grandfather, and really it's minor.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

It's it's really minor, it doesn't have to be it. It was doable, it's doable, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, in terms of characters, what's the rating for the development of the characters holistically, not individually, because then we'd be here forever.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

I say a five. I I like the character development, Alexandria.

SPEAKER_01 58:54

I'd agree, I'd give it a five too. I think having read the book, there are some things that I knew a little more um than what maybe the TV show gave, but I'd give it a five as well.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

All right, I gave it a four. The mother was one of the antagonists, and I just felt like middle need a little bit more for from the mother. So that was just me, my grid had. In terms of storyline, what are we giving it? Alexandria, you go.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

I ooh, this is harder because now I'm trying to figure out which side uh my radio should be on.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

We'll come back to you, uh Michaela. What are you giving it?

SPEAKER_03 59:35

Uh storyline a solid four, but I don't know why in particular. Like I enjoyed it. I don't know that you could have added more to it.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Yeah, I'd give it a four as well. Um, all things considered.

SPEAKER_00 59:53

Yeah, I think that's where I'm leaning, only because again, there were some aspects of character that I really wanted to see more of, but is there ever a five perfect storyline? But um, I think overall Queenie gets a four, you know, which is I think maybe one was the only storyline we gave a five. Yeah, yeah. You know, so again, Kentis Cartoon Williams is up there, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

Candace make up yourself, my girl. Anything you know, me there.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

Yes, her projects are fan favorites over this side, yeah, yeah, and so um thank you for joining us for this season

Final Takeaways And Where To Watch

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

of Reals and Rhythms. We will be back in the fall, but you will see upon the social media, do the things, and um just send us a message, eel us up, tell us where you're watching, tell us what you want to see, what you want us to talk about, and um yeah, thank you for being on this ride with us, honestly. It's been so much fun. So thank you. Thank you for joining us, Alexandria.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

Yes, yes, Breat Media Pumble. Yeah, any last words, Michaela? No, no, this has been an exciting journey. Thank you, Carrie, for you know, us just actually doing the thing, you know. I talk we talk about it, and you know, it's been such a great uh experience just to talk the things with you as usual. So looking forward to our fall season, but looking forward to the little break we are gonna get. So until next time, you know, Carrie, back over to you for close out, closeouts.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

There's no more closeout. Walk good later, little more, all these things.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:46

Bye.

unknown 1:01:47

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Hey, I hope you enjoyed that episode of Reels and Rhythms. If you want to hear more or even watch the episode, the links to the video and audio are in the show notes. Check it out.