Why Parenting Looks Different Now

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to another episode of Carry On Friends, the Caribbean American podcast. I'm Carrie Ann.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

And I'm Chris.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

All right. So, everyone, I love having Chris on the show so much that occasionally he will join me to co-host some episodes, including this one, where we're having a conversation with Dr. Anne Louise Lockhart on parenting.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Oh, yeah. Parenting, parenting, parenting. But you know, it's it's it's sort of interesting because it's not just parenting, it's also parenting during a pandemic and parenting for people like myself, right? Who are new to uh parenting as a result of this sort of shift uh in the world uh with this pandemic. So I'm parenting my two nephews, and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who uh have experienced a similar situation, and boy, it's been fun, Carrie. A lot of fun.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Uh, you know what? That's a good way to look at it. Um, we get to talk more on things outside of podcasting, or the premise on how we met was really heal up Chris Wagon. Never did I think we would be having conversations around parenting. Oh, yeah, where we have. So um, let's set up with the audience why this conversation came up. And you kind of hinted at it already, right? So tell the audience a little bit more about why we're doing this episode.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

So, you know, as I mentioned, I am new to parenting as a result of this pandemic. You know, my parents are getting older, they were they were raising my two nephews. Um, and with everything that's happened uh from a health perspective, with with my mom getting sick and now she's better, but it was it made sense for me to take over that role. Um, and so you know, my two nephews are now living with me. Uh they're age 13 and and seven. Uh and so with that, it's been a shift. Uh, me as a single guy trying to understand what it's like to be a parent.

SPEAKER_02 2:04

No, a bachelor.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yeah, no, yeah, bachelor life done. Uh, and and raising raising two boys. And you know, listen, I mean, I've always had the I think that in me because I've I've always wanted to be a parent, right? Um, so it's and and having been raised by both my parents, I feel like it's you know, it makes life a little less stressful, but then doesn't take away the strenuous part when it's just you alone uh taking care of two energetic Rambunk boys. So, you know, this conversation was needed because you know, I know there are a lot of people out there experiencing similar challenges. You know, what do you do? Um, even if you're in a marriage or you're in a relationship, like what do you do? How do you handle how do you parent now? And and then parenting, understanding all the other things that come with that, you know?

SPEAKER_02 2:59

So yeah, everyone, you're gonna really enjoy this conversation because it wasn't just about Chris, you know, coming into this new role as a parent, you know, even for me, I've hinted all through last year that my son Ethan was hospitalized, had a very traumatic experience being hospitalized with an unknown illness and they make up a fancy name for this thing. And so even parenting him through a pandemic where you have to care for him physically and all the changes. And you know, you know, I have two boys who are younger, and um, even at this recording, may I tell them for top and eye so they don't pick up and on my audio as I'm recording. So um, did you hear that scream? I heard it.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yeah, I heard it. I heard it. I heard it.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

There is no telling them to be quiet, there's no, there's nothing, but you know, I'm I'm really excited that you all hear this episode. A lot of gems, and um, I think you'll enjoy it. All right, so now that you have the backstory for this episode, let's get right to our conversation

Meet Dr. Lockhart From St Croix

SPEAKER_02 4:02

with Dr.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Lockhart Good day, evening, nights, whatever time it is, wherever you are. I want to just uh start off by welcoming Dr. Anne Louise Lockhart. This is Chris Williams and of course Carrie Ann Reed Brown here on Carry On Friends. And I'd like to welcome Dr. Lockhart to the show. Welcome, Dr. Lockhart.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Thank you, Chris. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

How are you feeling today?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

I'm doing good. Now that we're um away from the winter storm 2021 in Texas, I'm doing much better today.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Oh, wow. Oh, so you said, wait, you're in Texas?

SPEAKER_01 4:40

That's right. I'm in Texas.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Oh, man. Oh, man. Well, I'm glad everything is okay. I'm glad you got your lights and water and everything is flowing smoothly, hopefully. Yes? Excellent. Yes. All right, all right. Uh well, you know, before we dive in, I'd love to hear, and I'm sure the community would love to hear a little bit more about who you are and sort of what you do. And and most importantly, because this is the Caribbean American podcast, what Caribbean country you represent?

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yes, thank you. So I am Dr. Anne-Louise Lockhart. I'm a pediatric psychologist, I'm a parent coach, I'm a speaker, I'm an author, I do lots of different things. And um originally from um I'm living in San Antonio, Texas, for about 15 years now. And I'm originally from St. Croix in the U.S. Virgin Islands. I was born and raised there and didn't come to the States until 18 when I went to college in Buffalo, New York. So that was a huge culture shock for me and a weather shock. And then I've spent, man, most of my life now at this point in the States now. I've lived many different places from New York to Indiana, Ohio, California, Arizona, and now Texas. So I've been everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

You know, there's a commonality in this immigration story, you know, we have this culture shock, like, oh my goodness, it's cold. We've gone all over and now we've spent most of our lives living in the US, you know. But we pine for home and warmth of home. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah, I'm I'm ready. I don't know about you guys, but I'm ready now. Like, you know, just talking about this. I need to be on a plane, you know, forget the pandemic. Let's just get on a plane. But uh, but seriously, I mean, speaking about pandemic, I mean, uh part of the reason why we're we're here, and myself and and Carrie Ann were talking about uh, you know, parenting, and we're talking about parenting during the pandemic. And I think a lot of people have dealt with this new challenge, this new dynamic of, you know, you're working from home, the kids are homeschooling and trying to figure out parenting, not to mention the folks who, like myself, uh have become new parents because now I'm raising my two nephews. So it's something that that dynamic is is not just uh me, but I'm sure there are tons of people that are experiencing the same uh change. I'd love to sort of dive in and maybe get some guidance on how to manage parenting during this time because it's this is gonna be with us for a little bit longer, I'm sure.

Pandemic Loss And Survival Mode

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, I think this has been a huge shocker for us because, like most change, well, I don't I wouldn't say most change, a lot of change is handled usually better if we can at least mentally and physically prepare for it. So if we know that there's gonna be change coming, like growing up on St. Croix, we would get a hurricane. And so we would know, okay, hurricanes come in, it's gonna be here in a week or whatever, and you prepare for it. Uh doesn't mean you'll be fully prepared, but at least you can be like prepared for it. So with this pandemic, it happened so suddenly, and then everything shut down in such a severe way that it was a shock for us. We we didn't know how to deal with it, and we kept thinking, oh, okay, it'll be over in two weeks. Oh, okay, maybe a month, okay, two months, okay, definitely by the summer, okay, by the fall. And then it kept extending. And that's hard for us because psychologically, neurologically, our brains want um things that are predictable, that are comfortable, that are um that we can plan for. And when we don't get that, then we go into survival mode because it's a loss. What we experience was a loss of freedom, a loss of social contact, a loss of traveling, of seeing our family, seeing our friends. It was just an unusual situation. And that's where many people will either resist it or then they go way down. So there's people that like I present to lots of schools and um agencies in the New York area. And there are people that have told me that their kids have not left home in a year. Um, that's that's significant because they're so afraid of how the society has changed, they're so afraid of COVID that they have changed everything. And so that's the stress of the pandemic. It's all the unpredictability, and we don't have a what they call a schema or a file for how to deal with this. How do you deal with a pandemic when you could get sick and die and you can't go anywhere? What do you do? What are you supposed to do? Well, we don't know. We've never been through that before.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

Yeah, I was hoping you could give us some answers. No, I thought you had a playbook. I was like, oh, she's gonna open the book and she's gonna say, do this, this. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. No, but you're absolutely right. Like, that's the biggest challenge, right? Like, Carrie and I were talking about this, that with her children, my children, because they're essentially my children, um, just figuring this whole thing out. Like, for example, you know, we're home, we're seeing each other 24-7. Yes, what the difference with me is I take them out. We go to the park, you know, we go out in the backyard, I find places for them to go, you know. Uh, even during the wintertime, if it's even to go for a drive, we're going, we go drive from Brooklyn and Queens to see their grandparents, we do something. So I keep them active, but then at the same time, you know, one of the things you mentioned is the loss of of uh social contact. So they're not, you know, connecting with their friends in person, maybe virtually in school, maybe on the phone, but that's it. So what how do we, you know, sort of operate in this new with this new dynamic? Like what are what are some of the things that we can do, you know, maybe to sort of bring about some balance?

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yeah, I think that's a great question. And what I've been telling a lot of people is that, you know, we're honestly, even as professionals, we're making it up as we go along. There's not a lot of data on this. We don't know what happens when we have prolonged isolation and prolonged fear of like death or fear of getting sick. Um, so we're really having to kind of figure it out. So a few things that I think are helpful.

Rebuilding Connection With New Routines

SPEAKER_01 10:48

And of course, this really depends on where in the world, where in the country you are, of course. Um, so like in Texas, we have more green space. We have houses that are bigger, how yard space. When you're living in New York, for example, certain places in New York, when you're in a high rise and you don't have a lot of green space or any green space, then it's hard to just get out for some people, right? So I think we have to consider our environment and we have to find ways of getting those spaces, even if it's in your small little tiny place, you find a refuge, a spot, even if it's on the floor in the corner of your bedroom, that you have a little bean bag, you got your coffee mug, and you got, you know, your snacks, and you have your little computer, and that it's you have your own space. Or if there's a time when you connect with friends um and you do things, even if it's virtually or socially distanced. Um, for our family, like not being able to go to restaurants or being able to hang out with friends or go to the movie theaters, but we do all of that then at home. So I'll do something where I'll buy like a comedy um show and my nieces will buy it in Arizona and we'll stream it together and watch it together on Zoom and then laugh about it, talk about it, that kind of stuff. Um, have a family movie night picnic style in front of the TV in the media room. So finding ways to do the things you still value and love, but just do it in unique ways. Be creative with it because if we keep putting our life on hold until things, quote, go back to normal, then we're going to lose ourselves and our families in the process.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

I mean, that definitely sounds like great ideas. Um, and you know, something that I have a couple of things I could

Resistance, Boundaries, And Big Feelings

SPEAKER_00 12:26

try. Um, but now, you know, one of the things, right? So you're new to the whole parenting thing. And, you know, I'm talking about myself now. So it's been now nine months in. And so, you know, some of the struggles are just, I think, really just connecting in a way that they really understand that I'm here to support them. I think there's there's a lot of ris, there's resistance, right? Because it's a new environment. Even though they know Uncle Chris, have known Uncle Chris all their lives, you know, Uncle Chris is now Uncle Daddy, you know, so it's like, you know, I don't really want him to tell me what to do. I know he's our uncle, but why? You know, why is he telling me I have to do this? So, you know, how how does any parent or or new parent deal with that sort of resistance, that push-pull, you know, when you're trying, all you're trying to do is is help the child not necessarily be a father, but at least be a guy, you know?

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah. The problem is the push-pull. Like, we gotta stop pushing and pulling. And because it is a child's natural tendency to test limits and test boundaries. Like, that's that's normal. That's normal. We did it, right? I did it. Like, and then we act like it's something new when our kids do it. Like, that's normal.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

It's new to me. It's new, it's new to me. I remember the look that when my mother gave me that look, I wanted to go into the coffin. She didn't have to put me in there. I'm just gonna go in there and just lay down. It was that look, like, right.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

There was no testing for me because my father, all my mother had to do was say, wait till your father gets home. Oh, I straightened up real quick.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Right. But there was an initial test that led to the look, though. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

That's true, that's true. Yeah, that's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

There was and so I think a lot of us from the Caribbean, from the West Indies, and we're thinking that we're gonna raise our kids based on how we were raised, but it's a completely different generation, it's a completely different society, completely different setting, and it's different. And we're expecting to raise our kids and for them to obey in the same kind of way when everything else is different. And so the push-pull is normal. It is a normal developmental task to do that. And um, kids, it's okay if they challenge certain things or think about certain things. And I think for us as parents, we keep thinking that they got a bunch of mouth, they're too sassy, that you know, we gotta put them back in line. And if I did that, I would have been all these things that we say, right? And yes, although that may be true, you are raising your kid in a different generation, and people have to allow themselves to be able to adjust to that because the the messages they're getting in society are completely different than we got. And so that push-pull is normal. I think we have to remember that. And the other part of it is to then find out why they're doing that so often as parents in general, and um, is that we look at the behavior and we try to punish or do something with the behavior that we see when we have to identify what is going on behind the behavior, what's driving the behavior. Why would kids who are now having an uncle daddy for the past nine months during a pandemic, why would they push? Well, I mean, listen to that, right? Look at all of the changes that they've gone through, not just as kids, but in terms of their home setting, in terms of the pandemic, in terms of every everything has changed for them, has been uprooted. So if we can identify that that's what's going on and we can give them words and feelings to that experience, they don't have to push and pull so much because they know that you get it, that you're empathizing with them, you're validating their experiences, and you said, Yeah, I get it. I get why you're pushing because this is difficult for you, and it's difficult for me too. So we'll get through it together. But as West Indian parents, we don't get that. Most of us don't get that. And and so we it's abnormal for us, it's alien for us.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Not only didn't we get that, you know, um, it's very hard. I mean, I try very hard, and as much as I try hard, I feel like I'll go back to some mommy ways, some of my mom's ways. Like I try not to. So because we weren't really taught how to, you know, we try to be new age parents based on the generation. And then when, you know, when we're tired of the pushing and the pulling, we go back to mommy ways, right? So

Newborns, No Village, More Grace

SPEAKER_02 16:42

I do understand that. But I love you said a couple of things, and I um I want to consider like how about new parents who are, because I know audience members listening are new parents, natural born new parents, and having a newborn in such a it I I don't I don't want to say crazy, but it's just the time that we're in, and you know, as Caribbean parents or any parents, you know, a newborn, everybody come over, everybody's supporting this new baby and life with this new baby. And now there's not that level of support that you're used to under normal circumstances. What can you say to those parents with newborns who are adjusting to life?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

I think the biggest thing, I have an eight and a 10-year-old, and we um had them at home for nine months at the first part of the pandemic. They just reached recently returned back to in-person school in January. And and for me, and that school age, and that was tough because my husband and I both working from home, they're at home. I was like, oh my gosh, I am not, I did not sign up to be a teacher. Like, what the heck is this? But then I would speak to parents in parent coaching with new babies and toddlers. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't even imagine them not having that extra time to be around other people and getting a break and babysitters. And I think the biggest thing that I found for my family and for the people that I coached is to take things in stride and not take everything so seriously. And I think we have to give ourselves permission for that because a lot of us were raised in families and homes that were intense. So then we take everything so seriously, right? It's like, okay, if we have pizza like on Tuesday, we were exhausted. If we have my husband is like, I'm tired, you tired, we tired, we haven't pizza. I was like, that's fine with me. So people say, Oh no, we have to have a fourth square meal and let's have some vegetables and fruit and stuff. No, protein, no, like we don't have pizza. That's what we have in. Sometimes we may have cereal for dinner, that's what we have in. Cereal or water, right? So I think we have to not take things so seriously. It's not going to hurt our children if they have cereal for dinner. It's not going to hurt them if they just do a few hours of school and then we're just all exhausted and they just forget it the rest of the day. It's it's okay if you um allow your baby to maybe sleep with you for a little bit because they're so uh on edge, they're crying, they're tantrumy as a toddler, whatever it is, is that it's okay if they're having a hard time falling asleep. It's okay if they're picky eating, it's okay if they're giving you a hard time. Like we have to be able to take it and stride and know that of course they're having a hard time. This is a hard time we're in right now. And I think we try to make too much meaning out of it, and and then we try to like discipline it, have consequences when sometimes we just need to let it go and give them some grace in the process rather than fighting all the time.

Screen Time Limits That Actually Work

SPEAKER_02 19:29

I'm all for grace on on the thing about intent and too much. Um, let's talk about the technology and how much is too much, because you know, everybody's concerned. These kids weigh on too much technology, and what I mean, the trio will know to swipe and you know, I don't know. I don't know. Am I being a bad parent because I let the little pitney use the iPad? Like, I don't, I mean, if that's what's going to make him quiet, just make him wear the iPad. Right. Let me serve in. Okay. So you're talking from a psychologist's perspective on technology and how much is too much.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

So before March 2020, I was very strict on screen time with my kids. I was like, no screen time during the week, they didn't have no iPads, they could only be on the screen afternoon on the weekends. Like we were strict about it. They knew it. It was that's the way it was. And then the pandemic hit, and I was like, you know what? Whatever. Because there's there's strict rules or guidelines, rather, I should say, that the American Academy of Pediatrics says, I think it was before pandemic, it was like 30 minutes a day, no more than two hours a week or something like that for kids. And I was like, there's no way, there's no way. And so there's a balance here, right? That we have to know that kids have less entertainment and option options than they used to. But at the same time, we don't want to dysregulate them by having too much screen time. And screen time will dysregulate a child. If your kid is on screen times too much, they're going to be on balance. So dysregulated. They're going to be, there's going to be more tantrums. They're not going to use a bathroom when they should. There's going to be eating issues because they're not going to want to take a break to eat. They're not going to want to sleep when they should. They're going to be sleep deprived because they're on the screen. They're going to be watching inappropriate things or finding inappropriate things online because we are using it as a babysitter and we're not giving them enough opportunities to do other things. So I think we have to understand that yes, they're going to get more screen time, but at the same time, that can't be the only means of entertainment because it will dysregulate them and you're going to have a terror on your hands.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Yeah, that already go off.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Well, you know, you know, everything you just said is sort of hit the nail on the head for me. So I initially, that's one one of the things I did. I actually regulate screen time for for on this end in that, you know, because they're learning remotely, I feel they spend way more than enough time on the screen. So all that happens for the youngest who who is seven is I will let him watch certain programs on kids' YouTube. Like he likes um uh Um Sometime, which is this learning program, and and so he'll watch that for a little bit longer. And then when his brother is finished with school, he'll help him with whatever schoolwork he has to do while I'm working. Uh, and then that's it. Then hopefully they go out in the backyard or we go for a walk, you know, and then when we come back, we'll watch something on television, and that's it. Um, but but no games during the week, they only play games on the weekend, that sort of thing. So I was wondering if I was being too strict, but I I hear what you're saying. It sounds like I'm not doing too badly there.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Not at all. You're doing an amazing job, actually. I mean, you're doing a really good job because it's it's hard to say, oh, I'm gonna balance it, limit it when you have to work from home and there's nobody else to watch the kids. It's it's really hard. So I'm not saying it's an easy thing to do, but I'm saying that every time I've seen a parent say, I'm gonna just let it go and let them monitor and regulate themselves, I have never seen it turn out very well, especially for kids who are already normally dysregulated because of ADHD or depression or anxiety or some other thing, or kids who just, you know, their brains are still young and they don't know how to balance themselves out. They do need our help to know how to do that. So even if they're gonna be on the screens, like for me, we've loosened the reins a little bit, but now that they're back in school, again, they don't have any screen time until Thursdays because I know they don't have any homework on Thursday nights usually. Um, but again, it's only limited to maybe an hour and then on Fridays because it's family movie night and they can watch some TV. And then again, not before noon on the weekends, because I don't want them to just roll out of bed and then pop on to YouTube or whatever, because then what happens is that kids learn that that's the only way to entertain themselves, and they don't understand that there's other things they can do. They can play outside, they can go for a bike ride, they can draw, they can play Legos. There's many other activities they can do. And if the screen time is their only option and that's what they get into the habit of, then they forget how to play. And kids need to play. Just being on the game and just doing screen time is not healthy. So you do that and you allow them a limit so that I tell my kids, okay, like even on the weekends, you could be on the screen, but taking a break like every hour and a half. So watching for an hour and a half, taking a break for an hour, taking watching for another hour, maybe taking a break for two hours, whatever it is. And they now know that's the routine. And then they time themselves and they put on the timer and then they just regulate. So if I want to take a nap, I can do that because I trust that they know how to balance themselves out.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Wow. Can you can you can you take the two that I have? No, I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Listen, with Ethan, we took away this switch because our Twitch or whatever I name, I don't business at this point. I take it away because he used to get so aggressive when he was playing, like I'm like, no, so we if if this is how you're going to behave when you're playing it, we're gonna take it away. Just just don't even bother. And he gets upset. No, it is too aggressive, man. You can't you can't be upset, they're upset. Then I know it's time to take the Kindle away from Harrison because he threw something the other day. We said, All right, it's a wrap, it's done. He got upset, he'd need charging and he threw it. I was like, Oh, this is not how we do it here. Like, no. So there are telltale signs that you know he's had enough for today. Like, if you're getting frustrated with this device, it is enough. But I wanted to go back to something that you said.

Why “Why” Backfires With Kids

SPEAKER_02 25:35

If there's a natural push and pull, Harrison is having a tantrum. We took the Kindle away or the phone or whatever, these kids, and we need to find out why. In my opinion, or my experience, they don't know why. How how do we help them figure out why? Because I like I said, Ethan, I said, Ethan, why are you doing this? Why are you chipping? Why are you burrowing through the walls of the house? Where are you going? But I understand Ethan was hospitalized, he's like the house is a prison in his mind, but like tell me why. And I and at one point he gave me every excuse every time. I say, if you don't know, just say you don't know. Just don't give me no more like what you think I want to hear, but if you don't know, just say you don't know. So, how do we help them find the words to communicate? Because I realize that, you know, by them being on games and these shorthand types of communication, they don't really know how to communicate. So, how do we help them find the words to communicate how they are feeling?

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Great question. So I think one of the worst parenting questions we can ask is the why question. Why did you do that? Because if we really are honest with ourselves, is there ever an answer you're gonna get that's going to be satisfactory in your mind? Why did you throw the remote control, Ethan? Because I was mad. Is that gonna satisfy you? Or like, oh, because I was frustrated, I was done. Like, there's no answer we can get. That's gonna be. Why?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Okay, for every response. But why?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

But why, right? They don't know why. They don't know why. So, in a child's mind, they don't have that requires a lot of higher order thinking. It requires a developed and mature brain based on neurology, because your brain is developing until age 26 and because of experience. They don't have enough experience under their belt to understand why they do what they do. That requires a lot of higher order functioning, okay? And so when we ask that question, many times kids may be impulsive and they lie because they're trying to get out of trouble or they think they're gonna get in trouble, so they'll lie, or they'll just say something because they know that's what you want to hear. So there's really no good thing that could come out of asking that question, right? But then you're like, well, then how would they know? Well, they don't know. They don't know. And so it is up to us, where a lot of people call it like emotion coaching, where you help your child identify those things that lead to behaviors based on their thoughts and their emotions and their triggers. So my son has identified, or my daughter rather, she's identified, she knows when she has had too much screen time is when she starts to feel a little tinge of a headache. But a lot of times what she'll do is she'll wait till she gets a full-blown one and say, Oh, I gotta take a break. I said, uh-uh. You have to identify when you're starting to realize before you even get a little bit of a headache, so you have to take medicine. Like noticing, okay, I've been watching for an hour and a half. After that, I usually get a headache. I need to take a break. So helping them make connections between that and then knowing that once I get there, then I get crabby, then I get testy with my brother and my parents, then I shut down, then I get moody. That's all because it's too much screen time for you. You know that you're unbalanced. So then I'll say, so I'll tell her, I'm like, hey, I notice that you're getting really snippy with your brother. Is it because you've had too much screen time? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so too. Remember, you told me before when you when you're on it for more than an hour and a half, you start to feel a little bit of headache and then you get moody because you're in pain? Yeah. Yeah. So maybe you need to set a timer for yourself to know that maybe after three episodes of the show you're binge watching, you take a break for an hour and a half, whatever. Drink water, have a snack, rest your eyes, play Legos, do something else. And you so that way you realize that, and then you go back after taking a break. That's what you do. Because if you say, Well, why you why you snapped at your brother? I don't know. Because he was bothering me, whatever that is. No, you you help them understand why they did it so they can make connections, and then they know in the future, okay, mommy, I got my clock, so I know that when I've had too much time, then I take a break. And if I if no and I get on each other's nerves, we go to each other's room, take a break from each other, and then we can come back. Good, good job, guys.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

You know what? I'm gonna be honest. This let me tell you, I think you need to do a coaching for me and Chris on the side. I'm I'm just saying, I I I I'm I'm I'm I might be saying it's in a joke-ify way, but I think I can speak for Chris that we are serious, we are serious.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Virtual, I'm fine. I mean, if you want, I'll get on a plane right now.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

You know, you know, we need some par coaching. But you know, as you were saying that, in my mind, right, it's like leading the witness, right? So coming from a legal background, you know, or you're watching off Matlock leading, you know, you know, or for younger folks. I don't know what's the the law show for the younger folks, but I feel like helping them understand was a way of leading them to an answer, right? But I also realized that as you were talking, I felt like that was the trick Caribbean parents did to lay a trap to catch us into saying something they and they gave you this look like they were ready to pout, you know, that look like like oh oh, and then when they backed away when they heard the answer. And I felt like it goes back to what I was saying before we hit record that as much as we try not to be like our parents, there are tendencies that still come out despite our best efforts. There are little tendencies that come out that oh, this is mommy and grandma, no doubt. So, how can we, as parents, because now we've we know to to help our child understand?

Unlearning Old School Caribbean Parenting

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Because, you know, really and truly, and as you just said it, my 40 plus brain against this eight-year-old brain, it is not a good matchup, it is an unfair matchup, and that's what our parents did. So, as parents, now switching to the parents, how can we be more mindful of um the things from our childhood that we are projecting on our children? And um, that comes out in our parenting. And I don't want to say heal ourselves, but address those issues that are ours and not this eight-year-old or two-year-old that we're I hope you understand the question.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

I had that yes, I understand that. And it's such a good question because I think we have to understand that the way we were raised isn't bad, and our parents didn't do a bad job, right? They did a great job. And it was, and I appreciate my mom still lives on St. Croix, and I appreciate the way I appreciate the way I was raised. I love that I was raised on a small island. I love the the the mentality of a lot of things. I think what I did not appreciate is just that whole idea that kids can have a voice, and it's okay. It's it's okay for them to do that. And I think that many times we as parents we think, oh no, no, no, no, no, you can't get away with this. You know, my mother would have done this. So because we were really like you just respect your elders, you do what you're told, and that's it. And that parents have their opinions, which are the facts, and kids just shut you out, kind of thing. So, and I think when I talk to a lot of Caribbean and West Indian parents, now in parent coaching, and West African parents, and African American stateside parents, a lot of the things I talk about, they they think that's just white people stuff, right? And they're like, that's not gonna work in my house. And I think what we have to realize is that that these things are can be effective, and it's okay to be able to have our kids have a voice and to have an opinion, but to do it in a way that's respectful. So if my son says something to me like, well, I don't think that we should have to go to bed at 8:30. And I was like, huh, okay, tell me more about that. Like, I don't need to be hush up. I don't have to why, why, why? Like it's okay if he has an opinion. So I'll say, Oh, well, that's interesting. Tell me, tell me more about that. What you propose? Well, I think we should stay up till 10. Okay, so what would that look like? Well, then we could stay up and we could watch TV with you and daddy, and then we could eat candy and pizza and blah blah blah blah blah. And he has like this whole, and then he's like, but you know, but if I stay up late, my eye is gonna be burning, then I'm gonna be tired the next day, and then my the day next day is ruined. Maybe that's not such a good idea. I'm like, okay. I don't have to tell him he that, and that's where we can start to coach our kids to being emotionally intelligent and to problem solving. A lot of the reasons why kids have temper tantrums and they defy and the push-pull is because they don't know how to solve their own problems. Because we either hushing them up, punishing them, telling them to, you know, not to do this or do that, or we fixing it so they don't learn to do it themselves. So we have to empower our kids to figure out problems by being alongside them and coaching and supporting them through it and helping them have a voice. Because so often why a lot of kids clam up, they don't talk, especially West Indian kids. When I was growing up, is because we didn't feel like we could speak up. We didn't feel like we had a voice. So we were uncomfortable with something. That's okay, you know. I know your uncle make you feel uncomfortable, hug him anyway. So we can never speak up, right? You know, and so it's okay to have your child say, speak their opinion and be curious about what they have to say. That way we can develop their sense of emotional intelligence and they can learn how that they do have a voice. So when something is bothering them, they can start to make those connections and tell you, yeah, I'm really sorry, Uncle, for mouting you off. And I'm sorry for this, this, this, this, this. I'm just very sad that things have changed. Oh, I know. I know I'm very sad things have changed too. You empathize with them after listening and reflecting it back and then validating it, saying, you know what, a lot of kids are having a hard time. I know I'm having a hard time too. I miss our old life. And then you problem solve it with them together. What do you need from me to help you get through this time? What do you miss that you wish we could do again, but we can maybe do it in a new and creative way? Let's figure that out together. That feels like more of a pull rather than pushing and pulling back, and you're engaging them in the solution rather than shutting them down.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Yeah, that's that's um, that's actually um something that I definitely need to apply.

Discipline With Tenderness As A Solo Parent

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Um, you know, one of one of the things for me, I I think that one of the biggest challenges is, you know, um, I'm doing this by myself as a single parent, right? Um, and I know there are tons of single parents out there, um, but I didn't get a chance to, you know, sort of tip my toe in. I died right in two at the same time, no, you know, you know, seven-year age difference, and I just gotta make it work. And so, you know, I'm trying to figure out how to temper, you know, structure, you know, discipline with you know, a little tenderness. And I'm this strong man who's, you know, I'm not saying I'm not capable of being tender, but I'm a disciplinarian. You know, my father made me this way. So it's it's how how do we get to this place of balance? I mean, you know, again, as part of parent coaching, like, you know, someone like me with what I just you know laid out, and I I know there are a couple of my other friends struggling with the same thing. How do we do that? You know?

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Yeah, I that's a great question because so many Caribbean parents are single. My mom was single for since I was three until I left the house. And so, um, so but what I really admired about her is that she showed both sides, the masculine and feminine, showing, you know, how to change a tire and change the oil and how to defend yourself and how to you know be aware of your surroundings, and then also the nurture and how to cook and how to clean and how to care for other people. Like, and it's it we can be both. We have both of those components within us. And of course, for you and for many parents, especially during this time, they've been in a unique position where they didn't get to warm up to parenting. You didn't have like a prequel chance to figure it out. You had to figure it out on the fly. And um, and so it's okay, you don't have to be all or nothing because kids do need that balance. It's okay to be the disciplinarian and have that firm um tone, but it's also important to be empathic and nurturing and loving because they do need both of that. That's where people get off balance and and off-kilter because they don't get that balance of you don't have to be all or nothing. You don't have to be all in task mode and or no and or all relationship mode. You could do both. You could do both. And so I think it's about really being in touch with that part of ourselves that may not come naturally, and then do that and make sure that we understand that our kids, whether it's kids that we've inherited or kids that we've born, that um that they need to be um, they need to be part of that process where we give them both of those sides of us, and we have to tap into it, but we have to be intentional because it won't come as naturally for some of us.

SPEAKER_02 38:54

You hit the nail on the head with you know being intentional because it doesn't come natural, you know. Um Dr. Lockhart, I know Krista and I probably have a lot of questions. I know I have questions, so you know, um, you know, just to kind of wrap up a little bit, what are some key things or strategies that you find is working for right now, knowing that you know what works for this three, six month stretch may not work for another three to six month stretch because it's evolving, right? So, what are key things as Caribbean, West Indian parents? Um, and the the the relationship goes every which way is the relationship we have with our kids, the relationship we have with the other parents, the relationships we have with our parents, because we all dealing with this pandemic, you know? And there's something that you said, and Chris knows this very well for me, this fear of death, because now kids are dealing with loss in a very different way. So, what are some strategies that you you're finding that some of your clients are finding success with um in this time?

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Okay, so there's two main things, but I think they're gonna be the most challenging for your audience because I keep hearing it over and over again, but it's the most successful, okay? So um, because it's not something that many of us were raised with. So that's why it takes intentionality, but it's very effective.

Child-Centered Play That Builds Trust

SPEAKER_01 40:19

One is to play with your kids, right? And I mean, like really play with them. I had a few reels and posts um in on Instagram recently about play, and people went crazy with it. Like they were like, oh my gosh, this is like brand new information. Like it was it was not the kind of response I expected because a lot of people had questions about how do you play with a child? They didn't understand it. And so the play I'm talking about is child-centered, uninterrupted play where you do something that they enjoy, doing it on their level. So if they're playing with blocks, you don't say, No, no, no, no, no, no, don't put that on there. Don't do no, no, don't do it. No, well, do you know red? You know, blue and purple make no, it's not, it's no teaching, it's no directing. You are just enjoying their presence and being present with them. And it's just and you're you're kind of like if you're going to talk and open your mouth, you should do it like a sportscaster where you're just noticing and observing. Oh, you put the red and then put the blue block on top. Oh, it fell over. Oh, snap. Like you're just narrating, okay? If they want to play a game with rules, you say if it's like Uno or Operation something, okay. So this game has rules. Are we gonna play by the rules of the game or a whole different set of rules? So you let them decide. Don't be like, uh-oh, you're cheating. That's not how you play the game. None of that.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Or may I play if you win.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Right. No, you have to put that aside. Because if this is a child-centered activity where it's just you and that kid for 15, 20, 30 minutes, it needs to be on their terms because what you're trying to do is you're trying to empower our kids because this time we feel out of control. The pandemic, the isolation, the masking, all of that stuff, we feel we feel weak. We feel like we have no control. We can't even see the virus. We don't know when we've been infected, we don't know when we've been exposed. And so play is a child's language, and it is one of the best ways to empower them and make them feel like they're in control. Okay. And I would say mainly old school play, not video game play. Okay?

SPEAKER_02 42:35

Yeah, I know. Um, my son got trouble for Christmas, and then we were like, oh, trouble is like Jamaica and Ludie. So my husband and I have been having Ethan playing Ludie. And I'll be honest, there's times he's like, Mommy, you can play this game. And I'm like, I gotta get this client thing out. So I'll be better about when he wants to play the game to just kind of put the client work down and play.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Exactly. And just do it and do it uninterrupted, totally focused. Because if you on your phone, while you're playing sorry or whatever, and you're like, uh-huh-uh-huh, okay, move my chip, whatever, then you're not really focused and they're gonna feel it and they're gonna suck you dry with your time and energy because they don't feel like you're fully present. Okay. So play is is big.

Listen Reflect Empathize Validate Collaborate

SPEAKER_01 43:18

The second thing, like I mentioned earlier, is to just attend to what their emotions are and what they're saying. So to help them feel like they can tell you what they need to tell you. So they say something to you, you listen to what they're saying and listen for the themes behind what they're saying. So, whatever it is, staying up late, like the theme behind my son staying up late is because he wanted to connect more in meaningful ways. He wanted to be able to, he thought he was missing out, you know. So connecting, so I'm like, oh, you know, so listen and reflect back by using their same words back to them. Oh, you feel like you want to stay up till 9 30. You're not judging it, you're just reflecting it back. Then you empathize using a feeling word. Oh, you feel like you're missing out. You got FOMO. What's FOMO, mommy? You fearing of missing out. I have FOMO too. Okay. So you give the empathy and the validation, which is like, oh yeah, me too. I go through that. Lots of kids go through that. I don't like missing out on stuff. He goes, that's why I don't like going to the back room because I feel like y'all are gonna talk about stuff and I'm gonna miss it. I'm like, me too. Okay. And then you offer a joint solution with them if they don't figure it out on their own. Okay, so because of blank, blank blank, how can we solve this problem? What do you think are some solutions? And they may have a really terrible solution. Oh, we should just stay up till midnight. Oh, really? Stay up till midnight. Okay, that's one solution. What else can we do? And then you help them think of more things. Because yeah, although that may be a bad solution, that is a solution. And so we want them to think through other ways of dealing with the problem and finding ways to resolve it. And so playing and then emotion coaching, which is the listen, reflect, empathize, validate problem solving collaboration, those two things are extremely effective for any age. It's effective for couples, it's effective for parent child, for adult child, parent, for work co-workers, for strangers. It's extremely effective because people feel heard and so they don't escalate. They don't need to fight and prove that they're right because they feel like you're listening to them.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

I don't know if we're hosting our in class.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

I was taking notes. I was I was taking notes, and then I heard you say, you know, it's funny, hold on, Carrie. Listen to what I heard. Listen to what I heard. Listen to me. So she said it's effective for couples. So I was like, wait, I can play with her. And then I was like, oh no, she's talking about to listen and empathize, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:52

No, no. No, but you know, we we this, I mean, I mean, we have to respect Dr. Lockhart's time, but in my head, I was like, oh yeah, marriage. Oh, all right, yeah. So I'm with L R E V P. Let me let here a minute. Let me write this in before I forget it. You know, um, I'm like, yes, you know, we were very studious. We were like, mm-hmm, uh collaborate. Wait, so uh listen, reflect, empathize, validate. Is it was P. What was the P again?

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Like the uh it's more like collaborative problems. Collaborative collaborative problem solving, yes, yeah, and then solve the problem together. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

I that's why I was trying to write it before I forget it. See, it was really quick. There you go. Good solving, and then um collaborative. Collaborate. Oh, yes, okay. I'm putting this to work in my head. I was like, You have any um handout and worksheets? Because you know, this is how Chris and I, and I'm sure other people in the audience operate, because I have a lot of questions at the end that I want to ask half the hair, and so you know, that's how I'm like, Yeah, let's wrap this up because no, but this is exactly why I am so excited that I had you on the show. Thank you, Monique Russell, for you know, um introducing to me uh me to you and suggesting to reach out to you. This was so amazing. I've learned so much and hope to learn more. Chris, you know, any last no, as did I.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

This, to be honest, you know, when you said play, you know, I I felt horrible because I, you know, I instantly felt horrible because I'm like, you know, I haven't truly played with them. I mean, we've gone to the park and we've played, you know, we're I've run behind them, run around, we've done we've done the slides and the so you stood at the thing and watched them play.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

You didn't do it. No, no, no, I know I didn't no no no I did. I just I'm messing with him.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

No, I know, I know. There were days that I did just that, but just you know, but I have I've run around with them in the park. But inside, like he has Legos, Jonathan, the youngest, he has Legos, and I haven't really sat with him, and he loves Legos. And you know, it's it you said something, and I I'm like, wow, yeah, I need to, I know I shouldn't be judging myself per se, but but I did. I can't help it. I I felt bad for not playing, and and so this is something that um I learned a lot. I learned FOMO. I did not know what FOMO meant. Oh no, no, no, yeah, I know the carry's giving me the look. Yeah, I did not know. I'm sorry. I just I did not know. I don't know where I was.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

I want to remind parents though, because parent guilt is so real, and you need to just stop. Just stop because there's lots of things that we could say we should do. There's times when I don't want to play with my kid after working all day and you know, do expending energy and stuff like that. There's times when I don't want to be around them and I don't want to play what they want to play. And and we can't allow ourselves to be beaten up because we're all trying to get through this time. Some of us are thriving, some of us are just surviving. And we have to have appropriate boundaries for ourselves and limits, but we also need to make sure that our kids get our attention too. Because if not, it's gonna come out through bad behavior. And so we have to keep that balance and knowing this is mommy time, this is daddy time, this is uncle daddy time. But then, okay, now it's me and you, we're gonna do this 10 o'clock, you know, Saturday morning, we're gonna play, do Legos, whatever it is, and be committed to that because they need it, they need our time. But don't let yourself feel guilty when you're exhausted because we are all exhausted right now.

Parent Guilt, Boundaries, And Support

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Dr. Lockhart, oh my goodness, thank you so much. You've been such a blessing to my life. I I I cannot speak for the audience, I'm sure it will, but I know in this moment, yes, I know. Um I have work to do, you know. There's always room for improvement. It's not parent guilt, it's just like just simple strategies. I think this overwhelm to feel like you have to overhaul your whole parenting approach when it's just little things. And that's what you've given me today.

SPEAKER_01 49:55

Good. Thank you. I'm glad you invited me. I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

And so tell everyone where they could find you.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Yes, so you can find me online. I have a website for my practice called A New Day Pediatric Psychology in San Antonio, so they can go to a new daysa as insanantonio.com. Um, Instagram is where I'm extremely active. So they could go to Dr. Ann Louise Lockhart. Um, and then um, if you old, like the young people tell me, then you go be on Facebook. Then you could go to a new day pediatric psychology, it's the old people Instagram. And so you could go there. And a lot of the content I have on Instagram I also have on Facebook as well, too. Um, and then also on my website, you'll see links to I have several parenting classes um for parents of kids with ADHD, with anxiety, um, for uh books on tantrums, that kind of stuff. So I have lots of resources for free as well as low cost. So I have there's lots of resources, and just reach out if you need further support. And I offer virtual parent coaching for people around the the world. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:54

We'll be calling.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

You know, you you know, this old time come a knock on our door. We'll be waiting for the colour.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Wait, wait, wait. It's three's company. We'll be using okay, are we not ready to do that?

SPEAKER_02 51:12

But I'm like, yes, but thank you so much. And um, as I love to see at the end of the show, walk good.

Resources, Coaching, And Farewell

SPEAKER_02 51:19

The Carry On Friends Podcast is produced by Breadfruit Media, and new episodes are available every other Tuesday morning. You can listen to the podcast on the website, carry on friends dot com, or you can listen on Apple Podcasts, iTunes, or wherever you like to listen to your podcast.